Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[railwayman3]

Yeah, the whole processing situation is something that is really not being addressed. The availability of processing for E6 film dwindles by the day and the cost is very high. I want all film manufacturers to succeed but I really dont see myself shooting E6 ever again. And I have dozens of rolls of Astia 220 in my freezer!!!

The cost of processing will be an issue if Ferrania go down the same route of "Alpha" versions if and when an E6 film is produced. It's one thing to spend a few pence on B&W chemicals, which most of us have anyway, to try out P30, but I've no intention of spending $$$ on lab processing an E6 film which might still be, to some extent, in a testing phase.

(And I'd still appreciate a reply from Ferrania to my post #2942 above. )

 

[RattyMouse]

The cost of processing will be an issue if Ferrania go down the same route of "Alpha" versions if and when an E6 film is produced. It's one thing to spend a few pence on B&W chemicals, which most of us have anyway, to try out P30, but I've no intention of spending $$$ on lab processing an E6 film which might still be, to some extent, in a testing phase.

(And I'd still appreciate a reply from Ferrania to my post #2942 above. )

Well, you are in a very distinct minority, judging from how well people tolerate Impossible Project film. I dont know what you call something before it reaches alpha stage but Impossible film is surely that!

 

[railwayman3]

Well, you are in a very distinct minority, judging from how well people tolerate Impossible Project film. I dont know what you call something before it reaches alpha stage but Impossible film is surely that!

I don't, and wouldn't, use Impossible Project film. OTOH, I'm not unsympathetic to Lomography.....at least they seem to actually get people out taking pictures, and their films produce the effects which they promise. (Edit - and they do reply to emails.....)

 

[twelvetone12]

Notwithstanding the "Alpha" label, from the images P30 seems a quite good product, not some sort of half baked experiment. Maybe next time something like "first batch" il more politically correct and less scary.

 

[faberryman]

Any objective tests of P30 to existing black and white emusions, or is everything anecdotal at this point? So far, everyone just seems amazed that it actually works.

 

[FilmCurlCom]

I shot my first roll at ISO 80, measured with the internal as well as a Gossen meter. All images came out extremely underexposed with Rodinal 1+50 at 14 mins as Ferrania suggested. The negatives are very thin. Also they are scratched a lot, 4 times "rail lines", along the complete film. That is my honest first test result.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I've emailed Ferrania on the following point, but without a reply.

As a Kickstarter contributor, I decided to hold-out for the E-6 film rewards when the option to exchange these for P-30 was available. As it seems to be becoming increasingly evident that quality E-6 film has now become pie-in-the-sky for sometime/never, is it still possible to exchange the rewards for an equivalent of P-30 ?

When we have appropriate quantities of P30 35mm in stock, we will re-open the Exchange program.

By the way, where did you send your email? I can't find it in any of our inboxes.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Any objective tests of P30 to existing black and white emusions, or is everything anecdotal at this point? So far, everyone just seems amazed that it actually works.

If you do a bit of google searching, look at our various social media streams, and/or visit Dead Link Removed, you'll see that a number of people are testing the film in various ways. I don't know if these tests qualify as objective or not...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I shot my first roll at ISO 80, measured with the internal as well as a Gossen meter. All images came out extremely underexposed with Rodinal 1+50 at 14 mins as Ferrania suggested. The negatives are very thin. Also they are scratched a lot, 4 times "rail lines", along the complete film. That is my honest first test result.

We have to see the results before we can offer any help. We have two different ways to share - Dead Link Removed.

And if you received a roll that was scratched before it was sent to you, you'd be the first, but it would certainly qualify for a replacement.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Notwithstanding the "Alpha" label, from the images P30 seems a quite good product, not some sort of half baked experiment. Maybe next time something like "first batch" il more politically correct and less scary.

We are really quite proud of P30 ALPHA. Dead Link Removed attempts to put it into a bit of perspective.

Considering the number of rolls we have shipped so far, the number of problems reported is tiny and isolated - nothing consistent enough to require changes.

We are mostly seeing beautiful photographs. If you have a minute, take a look at our Instagram feed.

Our technical founder, Marco Pagni, is the arbiter of the ALPHA designation. P30 will remain ALPHA until he says differently.

 

[mshchem]

Quite an accomplishment. Looking forward to great things!
Best Mike

 

[FilmCurlCom]

...
But in a general sense, "too small" is not theright phrase. It is more accurate to say that we are "less capable" of producing the Kickstarter batch in 2017 than we were in the spring of 2015.

When I get a response from Italy, I'll follow up.

I haven't found anything connected to this on your latest website post. Did you get any further info on this? I wanted to understand what less capable actually means.

 

[Berri]

Because it costs him nothing.

Think about it. So, he's confident and looking forward to a niche product in an obsolete format that hobbyists enjoy. Worst case he's disappointing and can rant online for a while. He still got to enjoy months of anticipation and excitement. If Ektachrome fails no-one's livelihood is at stake. Win-win.

If however it does come out great! We have more another slide film to play with and complain about how it's not as good as the old stuff. I'll never plunk down $10 for a roll of 35mm and another $20+ for development and I'm still following Ektachrome with interest.

May I ask you what are you doing here if you think that chromes are just a niche product, an obsolete medium that nobody wants? I though the whole point of ferrania was to produce chromes.
I'm confident that kodak product will be much better than the ferraniachrome (if it will ever come true) because it was already a better product than the old ferrania color reversal films produced when the factory was at its best capabilities.
Do you think processing ferrania chromes will cost you any less? E6 is easy enough to perform it at home and it doesn't cost that much.

 

[RattyMouse]

I'm confident that kodak product will be much better than the ferraniachrome (if it will ever come true) because it was already a better product than the old ferrania color reversal films produced when the factory was at its best capabilities.

I find it very odd that you do not recognize that the days when Kodak were "at its best capabilities" are loooooong gone. Kodak is a shell of its former self. Do you think that all the chemists and chemical engineers who developed films have been on the payroll all these years sitting idly by while no new films were developed? No, they are long gone. Look at the TMAX 120 paper issue. Now going on 2 or more years, there STILL is not an acceptable solution to this problem.

Kodak has the ability to manufacturer film but hardly any ability to do more.

 

[Berri]

a

I find it very odd that you do not recognize that the days when Kodak were "at its best capabilities" are loooooong gone. Kodak is a shell of its former self. Do you think that all the chemists and chemical engineers who developed films have been on the payroll all these years sitting idly by while no new films were developed? No, they are long gone. Look at the TMAX 120 paper issue. Now going on 2 or more years, there STILL is not an acceptable solution to this problem.

Kodak has the ability to manufacturer film but hardly any ability to do more.

ctually, I was talking about ferrania being at its best. Kodak still is the best manufacturer of colour negative film, I cannot say the same about colour reversal, but ektachrome was a better film than ferrania schotch chrome, fact.

 

[Berri]

Look at the TMAX 120 paper issue.

I bet that's the only issue you can come up with.

 

[RattyMouse]

I bet that's the only issue you can come up with.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Too funny.

 

[Berri]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Too funny.

whatever...

 

[Meyer Trioplan]

I bet that's the only issue you can come up with.

Given that Kodak has been eerily silent about the re-emergence of Ektachrome on the market since the initial buzz back in January, time will have to tell. Maybe in November, we'll see gleaming blue and gold boxes with a fresh chrome emulsion, or maybe we'll see nothing and hear only our own speculation about where this project is. Or maybe we'll see a "limited release" emulsion at 20 USD a roll and have to consider our price point for such a novelty. Time will tell.

 

[Cholentpot]

May I ask you what are you doing here if you think that chromes are just a niche product, an obsolete medium that nobody wants? I though the whole point of ferrania was to produce chromes.
I'm confident that kodak product will be much better than the ferraniachrome (if it will ever come true) because it was already a better product than the old ferrania color reversal films produced when the factory was at its best capabilities.
Do you think processing ferrania chromes will cost you any less? E6 is easy enough to perform it at home and it doesn't cost that much.

I'm not knocking film or chromes. I'm stating fact. Quite a few people on this site are still in denial 10 years after film was relegated to the status of buggy whips.

I love shooting film, C-41, b&w and even chromes if I would be able to afford it. But stating fact that film is obsolete is not an insult to us who shoot it just as much as calling horseback riders enthusiasts.

Do you think film is mainstream and slide film is going to end up in every-ones Brownie? Can anyone under the age of 25 name a film manufacturer other than Kodak or possibly Fuji? Maybe we can band together with the fountain pen people and march on the Bic factory and demand that they make split tips again!

 

[Berri]

Given that Kodak has been eerily silent about the re-emergence of Ektachrome on the market since the initial buzz back in January, time will have to tell. Maybe in November, we'll see gleaming blue and gold boxes with a fresh chrome emulsion, or maybe we'll see nothing and hear only our own speculation about where this project is. Or maybe we'll see a "limited release" emulsion at 20 USD a roll and have to consider our price point for such a novelty. Time will tell.

Ektachrome is necessary if they want to sell their new super8 camera.

 

[Berri]

even chromes if I would be able to afford it

reversal film has always been expansive. People backed ferrania to produce reversal film, that is a fact. All I'm saying is that many of those might find the new ektachrome stuff just enough to make them forget about ferrania. I really appreciate the effort that the ferrania staff is making, but I don't think they will make a colour reversal film capable of competing with the well known and trusted Kodak emulsion. Old ferrania chromes weren't that good back in the days ferrania was at its full potensial, and ther is just no way they will be able to produce anithing better than they used to make, IMHO.

 

[Cholentpot]

reversal film has always been expansive. People backed ferrania to produce reversal film, that is a fact. All I'm saying is that many of those might find the new ektachrome stuff just enough to make them forget about ferrania. I really appreciate the effort that the ferrania staff is making, but I don't think they will make a colour reversal film capable of competing with the well known and trusted Kodak emulsion. Old ferrania chromes weren't that good back in the days ferrania was at its full potensial, and ther is just no way they will be able to produce anithing better than they used to make, IMHO.

I'd agree with you on this.

Kodak has the name power behind it. 'Makers of the greatest film emulsions!' and to my eyes they still do make the best film. However, the youngsters shooting film these days are not necessarily looking for the best, or the sharpest or lowest grain. They are looking for a film that looks like film to say to freinds 'Hey! I shot this on film!' Dirt, dust, scratches, pinholes, colorshift, all good. We're not even talking LOMO here. I'm guilty of this, I have no problem shooting expired film so as to differentiate between my digital stuff and film stuff to the casual viewer.

 

[Berri]

oungsters shooting film these days are not necessarily looking for the best, or the sharpest or lowest grain. They are looking for a film that looks like film to say to freinds 'Hey! I shot this on film!' Dirt, dust, scratches, pinholes, colorshift, all good. We're not even talking LOMO here.

I agree, and I would shoot any type of film myself including grainy reversal film (I'd love CR 200 if it wasn't that yellow) I think the niche market of chrome film is already too crowded and it won't be easy for ferrania to make a film that is either as good as ct precisa but less expansive or cheaper than the grainy rollei film. The truth is that back when all got started film seemed bound to disappear in no time, especially colour reversal film; ten years later Kodak is bringing Ektachrome back and fujifilm still makes chrome plus we have a very good and cheap reversal film made by fuji for agfaphoto.

 

[RattyMouse]

I really appreciate the effort that the ferrania staff is making, but I don't think they will make a colour reversal film capable of competing with the well known and trusted Kodak emulsion.

Kodak has already let it out that their upcoming Ektachrome film has to be reformulated. That means a new product and not an old one. Time will tell if the people who remain at Kodak are able to formulate a product the way the legacy people did decades ago.