Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[fdonadio]

Arista and kentmere are rebrands, most likely Ilford

Kentmere is Harman's "second brand" (Ilford is the first). Arista is Freestyle's house brand and is made by Foma.

 

[Cholentpot]

Kentmere films use their own emulsions and their manufacturer Harman (who also manufactures Ilford films) has stated in the past that they will not re-brand any films that they produce and sell under either the Kentmere line or the Ilford line.
Harmann does do contract coating and manufacture though - contact them with your specifications for "Cholentpot Pan 400" and they will be happy to discuss with you the feasability of what you seek, and the cost to produce the few thousand rolls you want.

Cholentpot Pan. If I ever had the money or time that would be awesome.

Kentmere is Harman's "second brand" (Ilford is the first). Arista is Freestyle's house brand and is made by Foma.

I figured people here would know better than me. So Foma, Harman, Kodak and Fuji are the big players these days?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Contract coating will usually cost about $50 - $100K and there must be a pilot run with no guarantee of results. You sometimes must supply the emulsion. If you do, under some circumstances you can make it using their facilities.



PE

 

[fdonadio]

I figured people here would know better than me. So Foma, Harman, Kodak and Fuji are the big players these days?

I guess so. Besides these, I know for sure all the remaining brands are made elsewhere, except for Ferrania P30.

I don't know who makes Adox films and paper, though.

Inoviscoat makes film for a lot of small brands, I've heard.

 

[pbromaghin]

Kentmere films use their own emulsions and their manufacturer Harman (who also manufactures Ilford films) has stated in the past that they will not re-brand any films that they produce and sell under either the Kentmere line or the Ilford line.
Harmann does do contract coating and manufacture though - contact them with your specifications for "Cholentpot Pan 400" and they will be happy to discuss with you the feasability of what you seek, and the cost to produce the few thousand rolls you want.

Are you sure they said that about Kentmere? I thought it was only their Ilford products that were included.

 

[Cholentpot]

Contract coating will usually cost about $50 - $100K and there must be a pilot run with no guarantee of results. You sometimes must supply the emulsion. If you do, under some circumstances you can make it using their facilities.



PE

Oh great! Cholentpotatomic-PXP coming soon!

 

[MattKing]

Are you sure they said that about Kentmere? I thought it was only their Ilford products that were included.

I am absolutely sure that it was stated with respect to anything sold by Harman under any of their own brands.
But can I find Simon Galley's post.....

 

[pbromaghin]

Nah, that's ok. I must be misremembering it.

 

[Arctic amateur]

I am absolutely sure that it was stated with respect to anything sold by Harman under any of their own brands.
But can I find Simon Galley's post.....

Here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Here: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

...and probably many more, but I got bored.

 

[MattKing]

Thank you.
"private label" was the search term that eluded me.
I think I tried every other possibility....

 

[Arctic amateur]

You're welcome. I tried many search terms too.

 

[cmacd123]

Fuji, Kodak, Ilford (harmon), and now Ferrannia are the folks who actually make film under their own name. Agfa (Belgium) does sell and perhaps made some "industrial" films like AviPhot, which are packaged by others. Inoviscoat does "contract" coating. Filmotec.de may or may not coat their products, but they concentrate on Cine Film in any case. Adox.de has some coating machinery, but it is not clear if they have actually coated their films or have it made for them.

No one is sure what if anything is happening in the Former Soviet union countries or China.

from the list, it is clear that Ferrannia is a bright light of hope.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Carestream in Colorado also does toll coating.

PE

 

[cmacd123]

Carestream in Colorado also does toll coating.
PE

Yes, I understand that they are who now has the contract for "Kodak" branded colour paper. they are the former Medical x-ray division of Kodak and they probably don't sell anywhere near historic quantities of X-ray film these days.

there may be others in the "toll" business. I wonder for example what happened to the facility in France who used to make some Agfa brand paper. (although I would give 99.9% odds that it is no longer making anything with light sensitive silver in it.

 

[Nzoomed]

No, Wittner has no 135 Wittnerchrome left. They even said so in one of their website post long ago. You can sometimes still find it from other shops around Europe if you google for it.

Thats a shame, it was a good film stock albeit a little grainy.

I do remember saying they were trying to make it last by restricting the order quantity or something.
I think they want to keep the remainder for super8 as long as possible.

Hopefully AGFA restarts production someday.
Such a nice film.

 

[FilmCurlCom]

I do remember saying they were trying to make it last by restricting the order quantity or something.
I think they want to keep the remainder for super8 as long as possible.

Yeah, they did say that indeed. On the german version of the old website (can't currently find any link to any English version) they say the following products won't be made anymore:
- #2202 - Wittner Chrome 200D 16mm 2R 38m/125ft
- #2203 - Wittner Chrome 200D 16mm 2R 72m/250ft
- #5102 - Wittner Chrome 200D Double 8 30m/100ft
- #5302 - Wittner Chrome 200D DS8 30m/100ft
- #1200-60 - Wittner Chrome 200D Super 8 Bulk 60m/200ft
- #3016 - Wittner Chrome 200D 135-36 Slide Film
http://www.wittner-kinotechnik.de/neu/

 

[Berri]

Inoviscoat does "contract" coating

According to their website they can produce emulsions, not just coat films.

 

[FilmCurlCom]

I haven't found anything connected to this on your latest website post. Did you get any further info on this? I wanted to understand what less capable actually means.

Now that Photrio is up and running (yeah!) I'd like to come back to my question from 9 days ago that has not been answered yet (I posted it well before Apug went down).
Dave, could you please gives some details on what "less capable now than in 2015" means? You said you'd try to get feedback from Italy but so far I have seen none.

 

[cmacd123]

Now that Photrio is up and running (yeah!) I'd like to come back to my question from 9 days ago that has not been answered yet (I posted it well before Apug went down).
Dave, could you please gives some details on what "less capable now than in 2015" means? You said you'd try to get feedback from Italy but so far I have seen none.

They did plan to use the existing setup to make the "reward" batch using existing raw materials, from the last batches made before the plant closed. Possibly using machines still in place in the old buildings. they have had to relocate equipment, which means it is packed away and will need refurbishing and re installation in the LRF building. the old buildings are now gone!

The new work-flow is apparently being worked out using the P30 as a test subject.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I haven't found anything connected to this on your latest website post. Did you get any further info on this? I wanted to understand what less capable actually means.

We've decided to hold this "less capable" post for Kickstarter Backers (and also our site of course) because it's most relevant to Backers.

The text is currently being bounced back and forth to ensure accuracy - but as usual there are things happening behind the scenes whose outcome could change the nature of the post. And it's August in Europe.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Now that Photrio is up and running (yeah!) I'd like to come back to my question from 9 days ago that has not been answered yet (I posted it well before Apug went down).
Dave, could you please gives some details on what "less capable now than in 2015" means? You said you'd try to get feedback from Italy but so far I have seen none.

Yes, sorry - I could not reply to anything for several days. See my other reply to this request.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

They did plan to use the existing setup to make the "reward" batch using existing raw materials, from the last batches made before the plant closed. Possibly using machines still in place in the old buildings. they have had to relocate equipment, which means it is packed away and will need refurbishing and re installation in the LRF building. the old buildings are now gone!

The new work-flow is apparently being worked out using the P30 as a test subject.

This is certainly a part of the issue, yes.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

So you are calling Dave Bias a deliberate and serial liar. Either that or you have not been paying attention.

Dave has made clear repeatedly that the kickstarter and P30 are completely separate efforts, that the kickstarter money was for saving the machinery for the future - after they outgrow the LRF as a production facility - and that is how it was spent. He has also made clear that, before the asbestos and utility fiascoes caused the chemicals they were going to use to expire, they were in much better position to make E6. He has also stated (and PE has backed him up on this) that P30 is a valid, even vital, intermediate step to making the more complex color reversal. Finally, he has said that if they hadn't been able to sell the P30 they would probably be out of business now.

Are those all lies?

Thanks for the recap - and all the truth.