Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Prof_Pixel]

This is why he has been silent for a couple days, someone chained him to a barn!

I suspect PE has been/is without power and/or Internet service. Quite a severe windstorm hit the Rochester, NY area last Wednesday with well over 100,000 people without power at it's peak. He lives in an area that was particularly hard hit

 

[railwayman3]

Yes it does, and quite well in my opinion.

It's actually what it says about the user's lack of literary skill, vocabulary and judgement. Do you use blasphemy to try to make a point in your everyday speech to your family and friends, or only when you're hidden behind a computer keyboard with an anonymous name ?

 

[Berri]

Oh, I'm a liar now! That's precious.

As I've said again and again, we are sharing our process as close to real-time as we can. We're clearly showing our company being built brick by brick, so to speak. We chose this path purposely, and the result has been overwhelmingly positive.

Yes, this opens us up to being wrong - but nothing is stated without lengthy consideration, and nothing is a lie when we say it. But it seems that some of you refuse to understand the terms "fluid situation" and "transparency" that I have repeated again and again.

That was just a joke. I hope I didn't offend you. If I did, please accept my apologies.

 

[railwayman3]

Well said.
We're at a point where referring to "fluidity" and "alpha stage" is no longer an adequate excuse for sloppiness. If anything, the fact that it's an alpha product being launched, makes it even more important for them to appear trustworthy. They are at a very vulnerable stage, where they still have to build confidence and loyalty among consumers. It's not just a little fun project being driven by a small group of enthusiasts. To be taken seriously by a bigger potential market than this forum, they need to show that they themselves take what they do seriously. Not acknowledging that, and dismissing the concerns expressed here, only makes matters worse. By accusing those concerned supporters here of a lack of understanding, they are sending out a very bad signal to those who are looking for signs of how Film Ferrania will conduct themselves as a business.

I'm starting to wonder if that might be the case. Actually that's not a criticism, there are lots of projects in every hobby and interest which are fine, but they don't always consitute a viable business.

 

[Berri]

I wish Ferrania all the best and I can't wait to get their reversal film. What I am saying is just that over promising g and under delivery isn't the best option. I know you want to inform as real time as you can, but maybe there is something in between from saying to much and saying to little. That's all. I know that is easy for me to criticize any mistake you do because I ain't sitting on your chair, but you must accept complaint with humbleness (don't know if you say so).
Tell me though, what is the sense of a count down if you can set it back? None. You should have found a different and more efficient way to communicate with your backers and the whole community, you must accept that in this particular thing you failed, but that is not a problem, there will be other chances to prove how good you are!

 

[railwayman3]

But, but... what will you have to complain about if you don't try the film? C'mon... you know you wanna!

There are several other B&W films which I've never tried yet, if I feel like experimenting. I have a freezer full of fresh and older films.....off the top of my head, all the Ilford range, Pan-X, Plus-X, Agfa APX, most Ektachromes and Fuji E6...even 10 rolls of Fuji Fortia.....I don't actually need any more.

 

[Cholentpot]

Yes it does, and quite well in my opinion.

Damn straight!

Quack, quack!

It's wabbit season actually.

Well said.
We're at a point where referring to "fluidity" and "alpha stage" is no longer an adequate excuse for sloppiness. If anything, the fact that it's an alpha product being launched, makes it even more important for them to appear trustworthy. They are at a very vulnerable stage, where they still have to build confidence and loyalty among consumers. It's not just a little fun project being driven by a small group of enthusiasts. To be taken seriously by a bigger potential market than this forum, they need to show that they themselves take what they do seriously. Not acknowledging that, and dismissing the concerns expressed here, only makes matters worse. By accusing those concerned supporters here of a lack of understanding, they are sending out a very bad signal to those who are looking for signs of how Film Ferrania will conduct themselves as a business.

Issue here is we are dealing with a sunny southern European outlook. Life is slower paced, cooking is slower, news is slower. The weather is nicer than in Rochester. It's not 'sloppy' it's, ya know...different. I'll meet you at noon means anywhere from 12pm till 3. Sit back under the shade and enjoy a beer, read the paper do the crossword. I'll be there eventually and I'll bring some cannoli...

 

[Berri]

I'll be there eventually and I'll bring some cannoli...

Cannoli just in Sicily. The rest of your description is quite accurate.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Shows how...multilayered film manufacturing is.

Cute.

 

[kb3lms]

As I've said again and again, we are sharing our process as close to real-time as we can. We're clearly showing our company being built brick by brick, so to speak. We chose this path purposely, and the result has been overwhelmingly positive.

And please keep doing so, love seeing the process step by step. 2 days, 2 weeks, as long as you guys get there, it doesn't bother me.

-- Jason

 

[Cholentpot]

Cannoli just in Sicily. The rest of your description is quite accurate.

Put that in there too see if anyone was listening.

Honestly though, what did you expect from the land of Ferrari? It'll be awesome when it come out, maybe with a few mind numbing glitches.

 

[twelvetone12]

I suspect PE has been/is without power and/or Internet service. Quite a severe windstorm hit the Rochester, NY area last Wednesday with well over 100,000 people without power at it's peak. He lives in an area that was particularly hard hit

Oh I'm sorry to hear that, I hope he is all ok!!

 

[Agulliver]

People say there's no sense of entitlement....yet we have forumites going into sulk mode refusing to buy Ferrania film because of the delays, accusations of lies, toys thrown from the pram because Ferrania aren't yet planning on making a 32.5ISO film in 2x1009.3256 inch sheets. OK so I exaggerate but only slightly. "Where's the 110 format" "when are the sheet films coming?" and so on are so frequently asked when it has been made more than abundantly clear that 35mm, and 8/16mm will be the first products with any other formats (including the less common ones) possibly coming later due to the intention to be able to do small runs.

For goodness sake...here is a small company that's going to make something we all want...NEW FILM....and what are they getting? A barrage of abuse from a bunch of entitled "enthusiasts".

If we all want film to thrive - and I assume we do - then by all means be constructively critical when things aren't right...but the abuse levelled at our friend from Film Ferrania is frankly shocking. On the other hand, anyone looking in on this thread who might be thinking of starting manufacturing film or any existing company thinking of expanding their line will look at the posts and think, "nope. Not worth it".

Get out of your little bubbles and see the bigger picture. It's not about YOU.

 

[railwayman3]

Put that in there too see if anyone was listening.

Honestly though, what did you expect from the land of Ferrari? It'll be awesome when it come out, maybe with a few mind numbing glitches.

And the land of Fiat ?

My first new car, many years ago, was a Fiat. When it arrived at the dealer, the steering wheel was fitted upside down. Second morning it was towed in as not starting (loose wires). Third morning, the driver's window fell out. Awesome !

 

[Berri]

And the land of Fiat ?

My first new car, many years ago, was a Fiat. When it arrived at the dealer, the steering wheel was fitted upside down. Second morning it was towed in as not starting (loose wires). Third morning, the driver's window fell out. Awesome !

You sure it was produced in Italy? This things happen since it seems Been contaminated by USA Chrysler

 

[Cholentpot]

You sure it was produced in Italy? This things happen since it seems Been contaminated by USA Chrysler

Nah, sounds about right.

QC? Is This car ok? 'Shooing motions' Yeah, get it out of here, we're done for today...

 

[Wallendo]

Film Ferrania is criticized for saying too much.
FujiFilm is criticized for saying too little.
Kodak Alaris criticized for saying too little (about the 120 issues).
Foma routinely criticized for being Foma.
Ilford still has a good reputation due to Simon Galley's contributions, even though he's been gone a good while, but eventually people will get antsy.
The reality is that people with negative opinions are much more likely to post than those who are reasonably happy.

I hope that when the alpha release of P30 occurs, that people will direct their feedback directly to Film Ferrania and not start long threads about defects in the film (which are expected in an alpha release).

 

[Berri]

Film Ferrania is criticized for saying too much.
FujiFilm is criticized for saying too little.
Kodak Alaris criticized for saying too little (about the 120 issues).
Foma routinely criticized for being Foma.

personally I never criticized fuji for saying too little. I criticize Alaris for the rubbish website they have, no information on their films.
Ilford is good.

Actually I'm not criticizing ferrania for saying too much, I am criticizing their press release for always being to much overoptimistic, this is just a wrong attitude that causes disappointment among the community. This is totally undeniable, you can see the direct consequences on this and many other forums. I am really looking forward to use their colour reversal film, but I don't need to know at what time of the day it will be released.
Tell me, what is the point of a countdown? Is it "saying too much"? Or is it just saying the wrong thing?

 

[railwayman3]

You sure it was produced in Italy? This things happen since it seems Been contaminated by USA Chrysler

Definitely Made-in-Italy, bought in the UK. Long before any US involvement. I just listed the faults in the first week.....the rust, leaking windows and the splitting seats followed within the year. By its 3rd Birthday, the car accommodated hens in a farmer's field. All 100% true, sorry.

 

[Berri]

Definitely Made-in-Italy, bought in the UK. Long before any US involvement. I just listed the faults in the first week.....the rust and the splitting seats followed within the year. By the 3rd year, the car accommodated hens in a farmer's field. All 100% true, sorry.

That's ok with me, I never bought a Fiat. maybe we send the bad ones to uk Seriously though, This is not a common problem and they should have changed the car immediately!

 

[DaveTheWalker]

That's ok with me, I never bought a Fiat. maybe we send the bad ones to uk Seriously though, This is not a common problem and they should have changed the car immediately!

In the UK there's a joke that FIAT stands for "Fix It Again Tomorrow"... they don't have the best reputation

 

[Berri]

In the UK there's a joke that FIAT stands for "Fix It Again Tomorrow"... they don't have the best reputation

I know, but trust me, even chianti wine you buy there isn't the same you get here, every time I come to UK i fall in the same mistake of spending too much in italian wine...

 

[Berri]

I know, but trust me, even chianti wine you buy there isn't the same you get here, every time I come to UK i fall in the same mistake of spending too much in italian wine...

I wouldn't buy fiat though...

 

[railwayman3]

That's ok with me, I never bought a Fiat. maybe we send the bad ones to uk Seriously though, This is not a common problem and they should have changed the car immediately!

I probably should have demanded a change, but, to be fair, at that time in the UK we were producing the likes of the Austin Allegro, Morris Marina and Vauxhall Viva.
As it happened, around the same time I was fortunate enough to inherit another very upmarket car, so I passed on the Fiat to a farmer friend. It proved so unreliable that he gave up on it, and he went back to driving his (totally reliable!) Wartburg Knight !

 

[Truzi]

As I said before, I expected delays - no big deal. Perhaps updates without soft deadlines would have been better, but I really don't see a huge issue.
Most of those involved specialize in the production of film, but not necessarily the marketing or distribution, let alone unforeseen issues related to the building and grounds.

On APUG there have been many threads with negative comments about various Kickstarter (and other) projects not meeting stated time-lines. It is interesting that Ferrania has received more negativity. Some is expected, but I wonder why it seems so disproportionate.

The only thing that perturbs me about P30 is I feel compelled to get some, lol. I think it's a great opportunity, and will reschedule my lunch hour so I can shop when the store opens. Oh, and there is no reason Ferrania should have the resources of Google or Microsoft at this point - so if it gets hit hard enough, expect the server to choke. No big deal, it will work out in the end.