Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Lachlan Young]

It was hard to coat.

This is probably incredibly arcane stuff, but what were the causes of this? Was it to do with the number/ thickness of the layers, or something even more complex than that?

Either way, I'll be interested to see what Kodak decides to do colour-wise with the new Ektachrome.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Something even more complex than that!

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

But, I still emphatically state that it will be different for a number of reasons.

It's not going to look like Velvia, and it's not going to look like Portra. I am sure it will look much closer to old E100G than to any other emulsion out there.

 

[Nzoomed]

It's not going to look like Velvia, and it's not going to look like Portra. I am sure it will look much closer to old E100G than to any other emulsion out there.

I would presume so too.

Will be interesting to see comparison shots taken between both films once its available.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Dave, while discussion has been focused on still film my interest in this project has been the production of Super8 and 16mm color reversal film. The Kodak release says nothing at all about Ektachrome being available as film stock. I first heard about the Ferrania project on Super 8 sites. Is movie film stock still a priority and could 16 mm be in the offering?

As noted in our last two updates, we are approaching ALL film we make from a "cinema-first" perspective. In other words, it must work as cinema film before we produce it AT ALL. This was very much a factor in the decision to abandon old-stock chemistry and components and instead jumpstart our synthesis department. It was a tough decision because we have so many Kickstarter Backers waiting (and waiting and waiting) for their rewards, but after the long series of delays of that stretched from Spring 2015 until Summer 2016 - it was really the only rational way to move forward.

Our promise when we launched our Kickstarter in 2014 was four formats - 135 and 120 still film, as well as Super8 and 16mm cinema stock. Releasing these four formats remains our primary focus for this year.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Just curious, is there any collector value for old VAX computers? I am reminded of flint tools.

I'm not sure about collector "value" - but there are certainly collectors out there. Our founder, Nicola Baldini is one of them! He has a massive personal collection of vintage computers.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Something even more complex than that!
PE

This is our understanding as well. According to Marco, they have quite a task ahead of them that is perhaps even more difficult than our own. However, since Kodak's resources are exponentially greater than our own, we hope they can deliver something quite similar to the original Ektachrome in a reasonable amount of time.

Perhaps more importantly, we hope that Kodak's announcement helps to arrest the discontinuation of E6 processing that is happening every day around the globe.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Since I mentioned the hoarding issue, I've seen a number of posts defending stockpiling to control costs or to ensure that you can continue to use a "dead" product. These are of course entirely valid reasons, and, in fact, I don't consider APUG-ers to be the problem. My post was simply to point out my friend's incredulity about the "pride" of Instagrammers who posted smartphone pics of unused film in the wake of Kodak's announcement.

 

[Prest_400]

This is our understanding as well. According to Marco, they have quite a task ahead of them that is perhaps even more difficult than our own. However, since Kodak's resources are exponentially greater than our own, we hope they can deliver something quite similar to the original Ektachrome in a reasonable amount of time.

Perhaps more importantly, we hope that Kodak's announcement helps to arrest the discontinuation of E6 processing that is happening every day around the globe.

Hopefully so. Interesting that we may have quite a "celluloid deathmatch" on 100 ISO E6 by the end of the year. Provia 100F, Ektachrome E100 and Ferrania's 100 Chrome. If Kodak shifts mass and the market expands a bit, it can be very positive for all. On the other hand, the market may be a bit more crowded, but it's fantastic that Ferrania's operation can be so flexible and with the future products (400, 640T?) Ferrania takes another land that the big ones may not easily. After all, Fuji quit Astia 100F and Provia 400X which were quite appreciated.

The current approach towards new sensititazion et al ends up being like the "give a fish/learn how to fish" adage, you'd have to tune a new production sooner or later, so the delays can have a positive outcome.

 

[1L6E6VHF]

Something even more complex than that!

PE

Is it just me, or is every photographic dye and every chemical essential to processing declared a HAZMAT two years after it is introduced?

(Okay, maybe exaggerating, a little).

 

[Cholentpot]

Since I mentioned the hoarding issue, I've seen a number of posts defending stockpiling to control costs or to ensure that you can continue to use a "dead" product. These are of course entirely valid reasons, and, in fact, I don't consider APUG-ers to be the problem. My post was simply to point out my friend's incredulity about the "pride" of Instagrammers who posted smartphone pics of unused film in the wake of Kodak's announcement.

Something like this? https://www.instagram.com/p/BO5m7PhDpxO/?taken-by=jacksamuelz (Sorry, had to jump on the bandwagon...)

 

[Nzoomed]

As noted in our last two updates, we are approaching ALL film we make from a "cinema-first" perspective. In other words, it must work as cinema film before we produce it AT ALL.

OK, this is interesting, because Ive read that its intended to re-introduce solaris at some point.

Does this mean you are exploring ways to make this film for cine use also?

 

[FILM Ferrania]

OK, this is interesting, because Ive read that its intended to re-introduce solaris at some point.

Does this mean you are exploring ways to make this film for cine use also?

Well, to be perfectly honest, we haven't given even the first thought to C-41 films at this point...

But in general, yes, we will approach all films as if they need to run at high speed through a cine camera - which ensures a certain level of quality and consistency that is obviously very important to us since we only have the one coater to produce all formats.

 

[Nzoomed]

Well, to be perfectly honest, we haven't given even the first thought to C-41 films at this point...

But in general, yes, we will approach all films as if they need to run at high speed through a cine camera - which ensures a certain level of quality and consistency that is obviously very important to us since we only have the one coater to produce all formats.

Well that does make perfect sense, and this would no doubt mean that the film would perform excellent in a regular film camera.

BTW, do you intend to offer a lab service for the cine films?

I would like to shoot super8, but its hard to find decent processing.
I would not mind if I had to send my films to Italy to get processed

 

[Photo Engineer]

Is it just me, or is every photographic dye and every chemical essential to processing declared a HAZMAT two years after it is introduced?

(Okay, maybe exaggerating, a little).

Exaggerating a LOT!

PE

 

[AgX]

Are the Guessers including me correct that the Super 8 and 35mm Slide versions will likely be cut from the same "coating event" as Mr. Seabrooke called it.

It will depend on what base Kodak will decide on for the cine film.

 

[Nzoomed]

It will depend on what base Kodak will decide on for the cine film.

Well the cine version of Ektachrome was still on acetate base prior to it being discontinued, so I dont expect them to change that, its all extra cost and usually polyester is reserved for final projection prints in the theatre like on the ECP-2 films.

Its also notable that remjet was never used either, unlike Kodachrome that did have remjet.
I had been told that the reason why Kodachrome had remjet was because it was primarily intended for cine use.

 

[AgX]

All Fuji Single-8 films were on PET-base.

 

[Nzoomed]

All Fuji Single-8 films were on PET-base.

Yes that was an exception, along with wittnerchrome 200 on the agfa base.

It was quite good because you could fit more footage on a reel due to the base being thinner, but some projectors can have issues with it.

 

[AgX]

I learned of one case of a commercial 35mm projector that was badly harmed. But that is the only case I know of.

 

[Nzoomed]

I learned of one case of a commercial 35mm projector that was badly harmed. But that is the only case I know of.

Must have been a real old projector, because all the modern ones were designed to handle it properly.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

BTW, do you intend to offer a lab service for the cine films?

As with so many things, we hope to do this, yes. We have the equipment and it's already in the LRF (not in storage)... But remember, our six people are 100% focused on production and this will remain their focus after production begins. We'll need to hire new staff for this specific purpose - and our priority for new hires will be to support expansion of production, not processing.

Choices for cine processing are slim for sure, but we think it's far better to push support to those who already do it - so that they continue to do it. And even if we offer the service ourselves, we think the number of people who will choose to ship their precious cine film rolls to rural Italy will be small.

 

[Nzoomed]

As with so many things, we hope to do this, yes. We have the equipment and it's already in the LRF (not in storage)... But remember, our six people are 100% focused on production and this will remain their focus after production begins. We'll need to hire new staff for this specific purpose - and our priority for new hires will be to support expansion of production, not processing.

Choices for cine processing are slim for sure, but we think it's far better to push support to those who already do it - so that they continue to do it. And even if we offer the service ourselves, we think the number of people who will choose to ship their precious cine film rolls to rural Italy will be small.

OK, that sounds fine, It will be a while before i start shooting any more super8, but I had been sending it to europe for processing (all the way from New Zealand) so is not a big deal to me, and would prefer to use Ferrania for processing if such a service was offered, although I do believe there is supposed to be a motion picture lab starting up here that will be offering the service at some point.

 

[Photo Engineer]

For those "amateurs" out there..... OF COURSE THEY HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST 1 E6 PROCESS. If they don't, how can they check out their own film? In doing so, they can thus ramp up to process the films of others. They must also have a B&W process for the single color coatings to check them out.

PE

 

[Diapositivo]

In fact, mounting a commercial development factory, now that Kodak announced the re-manufacturing of slide film, could be a serious business avenue to investigate for Ferrania.

The developing business would help grow and sell the film business, would be an effective complement to it. A certain and reputable developer would give a certain "base of trust" to the technology, more easily allowing investments by photographers and film producers, both amateur and professional, in this technology.
The uncertainty surrounding the future of slide film, especially regarding processing, will remain a drag on sales.
The move, by Ferrania, to set up a processing service could provide "firm ground", dissipate doubts, and have a "cascade effect" of trust.
Having a laboratory of last resort would help selling slides and that would, in turn, help the re-dissemination of laboratories.

The laboratory needs not be set up in the Ferrania factory, although that would be cheaper. Although more expensive, it could be set up in a place like Rome or Milan or Naples, near an international airport and much easier to be reached by couriers such as DHL or UPS*.

I understand that, for the time being, the Ferrania investment is small, the 6 persons are performing miracles, and we cannot expect more miracles, or more persons, or more capital. What I humbly suggest is to jot down, as a potential future avenue of business expansion, a developing business because that would, IMHO, greatly help the slide business and therefore the future of Ferrania. It would constitute a solid basement for the rest of the "building".

* Maybe somebody working in the logistic industry can give insight on where to strategically place such a lab. Maybe a long-term convention can be signed with people like Amazon to provide a reasonably cheap courier service as a low-priority "piggy-back" to services like Amazon primes, exploiting the slack of the primary service? That might imply placing the laboratory near a logistic structure of Amazon.