Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Nzoomed]

You raise a very good point! Yesterday on Instagram, a friend of mine posted that he was shocked how many people were posting photos of their own personal "stash" of Ektachrome in the wake of Kodak's announcement. He was shocked because people seemed to be proud to show film that they haven't actually used while at the same time claiming to be excited about Kodak's announcement...

This hoarding/stashing/freezing issue is of course a big big problem for all film companies in general - one that has been gaining some attention lately in the online film community. I've actually seen the hashtag #shootyourshit being used in online posts - and I could not agree more.

We're not quite sure at this point how we can truly tackle this problem, but it's most certainly on our minds...

Well sadly I was in the same boat, along with many others who bought a stockpile of the film to keep going for a few years.

Its not like I never intended to shoot the stuff, but I was "rationing" it to make it "last" as it were.
At least now, I can be more relaxed with shooting the stuff.

Im more than happy to free the space in my freezer!

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

You raise a very good point! Yesterday on Instagram, a friend of mine posted that he was shocked how many people were posting photos of their own personal "stash" of Ektachrome in the wake of Kodak's announcement. He was shocked because people seemed to be proud to show film that they haven't actually used while at the same time claiming to be excited about Kodak's announcement...

This hoarding/stashing/freezing issue is of course a big big problem for all film companies in general - one that has been gaining some attention lately in the online film community. I've actually seen the hashtag #shootyourshit being used in online posts - and I could not agree more.

We're not quite sure at this point how we can truly tackle this problem, but it's most certainly on our minds...

This hoarding thing is fairly prevalent here on APUG, this ferreting way of film, waiting... for the resurrection day (I'll bet you there are bricks and bricks of Kodachrome stashed away just for that purpose!). People need to consider the problem this causes to manufacturers (as you have rightly pointed out), rather than satisfy some fetish about ream upon ream of unopened film.

 

[Nzoomed]

E6 is not in a healthy state at this time. If it is to survive into the medium-term, a huge lot of E6 film across all manufacturers that we currently have must be consumed. The fact that throughput is so small through commercial processors is worrying enough because the process is filthy and wears out machines; the more films going through them, the better their operation over the longer term. Once the machines are clapped out through lack of use, they are very rarely (if at all) replaced anew. It's cheaper and most cost effective in terms of business to simply dump E6 processing. I have seen this with many labs with their machines too far gone to be salvaged.

Processing one or two rolls now and then doesn't cut it. Twenty to thirty rolls in a fortnightly period, continuing, is a good improvement, but thousands of photographers should be doing just that. They are not. It's all talk, little action. All of that E6 consumption should be done now, not at such a time in the future intedeterminate another film should make an appearance (Ektachrome, Ferrania) and somehow, the world is saved!. Ektachrome would require expansion beyond the 35mm format to MF and LF where the take-up would be more appealing. How well Ferrania fares in a global market that so many (outside the wizened confines of APUG) would be challenged to recognise the name (if at all) remains to be seen.

It does not surprise me one little bit that they have announced the re-introduction of E100g.

The reason being is that they intend to make it available in the super8 format for their new super8 camera.
I suspect Kodak have done significant market research and have found that there will be enough market for super8 alone to start production again.
They also know there is still market for selling it in 35mm format which they can dispose of the surplus from each run onto...

Dont expect E100VS back any time soon for this reason.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Dont expect E100VS back any time soon for this reason.

No love lost for that film over here! It didn't really light the fire in the market.

 

[alanrockwood]

Just curious, is there any collector value for old VAX computers? I am reminded of flint tools.

 

[Peter Schrager]

This hoarding thing is fairly prevalent here on APUG, this ferreting way of film, waiting... for the resurrection day (I'll bet you there are bricks and bricks of Kodachrome stashed away just for that purpose!). People need to consider the problem this causes to manufacturers (as you have rightly pointed out), rather than satisfy some fetish about ream upon ream of unopened film.

Not really the hoarding thing but I bought huge stash of kodak sheet film in the late nineties
I just don't worry about having film or current pricing...besides prices have gone way up so no harm if I care to sell...I actually have 100 sheel boxes! !

 

[Ai Print]

This hoarding thing is fairly prevalent here on APUG, this ferreting way of film, waiting... for the resurrection day (I'll bet you there are bricks and bricks of Kodachrome stashed away just for that purpose!). People need to consider the problem this causes to manufacturers (as you have rightly pointed out), rather than satisfy some fetish about ream upon ream of unopened film.

You seem to be assuming a lot here.

I have a stash of B&W film and a trace of color that would last me ten years that is currently insured for $25K. And with that, I order about $700-$1,300 a year to replace what I use, and I do use it. What this does for me is mitigate price increases, shortages and god forbid, discontinuation of products. It's not hoarding and sitting on it, it's using it and it is business.

So I have my supply and I also buy plenty of film annually.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

And with that, I order about $700-$1,300 a year to replace what I use, and I do use it. What this does for me is mitigate price increases, shortages and god forbid, discontinuation of products. It's not hoarding and sitting on it, it's using it and it is business.

I don't consider what you do to be hoarding either. Hoarding is buying and not shooting (then gleefully posting Instagrams of the hoard for some bizarre reason). I perfectly understand hedging against discontinuations and generally having a large stock on hand if you are a pro or artist. But like you said - it gets shot - and that is the critical distinction between what you do and hoarding.

 

[Nzoomed]

I don't consider what you do to be hoarding either. Hoarding is buying and not shooting (then gleefully posting Instagrams of the hoard for some bizarre reason). I perfectly understand hedging against discontinuations and generally having a large stock on hand if you are a pro or artist. But like you said - it gets shot - and that is the critical distinction between what you do and hoarding.

Quite true, i bought my film with the intention of shooting it all, and I will also benefit with the likely lower price I paid for each roll at the time also!

 

[Diapositivo]

It does not surprise me one little bit that they have announced the re-introduction of E100g.

The reason being is that they intend to make it available in the super8 format for their new super8 camera.
I suspect Kodak have done significant market research and have found that there will be enough market for super8 alone to start production again.
They also know there is still market for selling it in 35mm format which they can dispose of the surplus from each run onto...

Dont expect E100VS back any time soon for this reason.

This makes sense. When Kodak announced the new super8 cameras I wondered what film was supposed to go into there, if not slide film. Somebody answered to me that they were going to sell negative film to be digitally reversed into a video. I think the reversal film is much more logic a choice.

The coming back of Ektachrome is hugely good news for all the analogue photography industry, and not just Ferrania. The weak link - chemistry production, laboratories - will be certainly reinforced by the new Kodak presence. My wish is that Kodak, just as Ferrania is planning, is going to assist home developers who, in a niche market like this, are a necessary "hard core" to keep the industry afloat IMO.

 

[Peter Schrager]

It's really simple...more is better...

 

[guangong]

Dave, while discussion has been focused on still film my interest in this project has been the production of Super8 and 16mm color reversal film. The Kodak release says nothing at all about Ektachrome being available as film stock. I first heard about the Ferrania project on Super 8 sites. Is movie film stock still a priority and could 16 mm be in the offering?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

It does not surprise me one little bit that they have announced the re-introduction of E100g...

Kodak has made no such announcement. The film under development, E100, is to be an entirely new formulation. Its characteristics, including how it will compare to E100G, are unknown at this time.

 

[Diapositivo]

Kodak has made no such announcement. The film under development, E100, is to be an entirely new formulation. Its characteristics, including how it will compare to E100G, are unknown at this time.

What makes you think that? The tone of the announcement (which might be marketing bullstuff, but I don't see why it should) says things like "reintroducing the iconic KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Color Reversal Film", "KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Film has a distinctive look that was the choice for generations of photographers before being discontinued in 2012.". That seems to want to communicate that Kodak is reintroducing the product, the "recipe" that was discontinued in 2012, presumably with identical final results.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sorry to disagree, but making an identical product is really impossible at this time.

PE

 

[Rudeofus]

This hoarding thing is fairly prevalent here on APUG, this ferreting way of film, waiting... for the resurrection day (I'll bet you there are bricks and bricks of Kodachrome stashed away just for that purpose!). People need to consider the problem this causes to manufacturers (as you have rightly pointed out), rather than satisfy some fetish about ream upon ream of unopened film.

There are many folks here on APUG, who constantly claim, that color reversal film is a doomed product line. When E100VS was discontinued, many experts here made it quite clear, that Ektachrome won't ever come back, that there is ridiculously low and still declining demand for color reversal film products period. I loved E100VS, and still do, and I can still shoot it frequently thanks to the large stash I bought when I heard about its discontinuation.

This has nothing to do with hoarding of unused product, but simply keeping it available to me until even deep freezing won't preserve it any longer. Now, with one manufacturer hanging in there and two manufacturers about to reenter the market, I am much more inclined to shoot it at a higher pace, and I guess this will also apply to most other hoarders.

Had I not hoarded that film I liked so much, I may well have decided to cut my losses and switch to some other medium, and Ferrania's and Kodak Alaris's recent announcements would have been of little consequence to me. These two companies may well see us hoarders as the ones who kept this process running against all odds, and as very likely future customers of their new products. I would expect, that manufacturers get much more grief from people constantly predicting E6's imminent demise, not from people going the extra mile to keep E6 up and running.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Kodak has made no such announcement. The film under development, E100, is to be an entirely new formulation. Its characteristics, including how it will compare to E100G, are unknown at this time.

What makes you think that?...

See this post:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)​

 

[Prest_400]

What makes you think that? The tone of the announcement (which might be marketing bullstuff, but I don't see why it should) says things like "reintroducing the iconic KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Color Reversal Film", "KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Film has a distinctive look that was the choice for generations of photographers before being discontinued in 2012.". That seems to want to communicate that Kodak is reintroducing the product, the "recipe" that was discontinued in 2012, presumably with identical final results.

However, Ektachrome is not Ektachrome is not Ektachrome.
Ended up at some d* sites that posted the news and quite a few complained that Ektachrome faded, that Ektachrome was X-or Y deficient, Kodachrome was so much better because of whatever, etc. The Ektachrome name wraps a whole line of different products from 1940s to 2012.
Probably not identical, but they may very well have a base characteristics prior the reformulation and quite similar to E100G tuned to be an allrounder. Ferrania's upcoming film may improve on a few characteristics from the antecessor.

A good thing of being student poor is that it is easy to deter hoarding, at most, it is just stock up a few propacks.

 

[MattKing]

There are two press releases.

The one from Eastman Kodak is more focused on the movie stock. The one from Kodak Alaris is more focused on the 35mm still stock.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I too thought that Ektachrome would never come back and here it is ---. But, I still emphatically state that it will be different for a number of reasons.

PE

 

[Nzoomed]

I too thought that Ektachrome would never come back and here it is ---. But, I still emphatically state that it will be different for a number of reasons.

PE

I could see it coming back after their announcement of the new Super8 camera, it seemed pretty logical to me that they would want a reversal film available for projection.

I just hope they stick to the original formula and dont change it too much.

 

[Diapositivo]

See this post:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)​

I see, thanks!

 

[cmacd123]

I too thought that Ektachrome would never come back and here it is ---. But, I still emphatically state that it will be different for a number of reasons.
PE

was that because it used to be made at a different plant, or have their been regulatory changes that would likely require reformulation? Are the Guessers including me correct that the Super 8 and 35mm Slide versions will likely be cut from the same "coating event" as Mr. Seabrooke called it.

 

[Photo Engineer]

It was made in Rochester. It was hard to coat. They wanted to reformulate it, but sales would not support R&D. That has obviously changed!

The film may use an older coupler set and if so, there has to be some degree of reformulation. Same thing with sensitizing dyes. Reversal color emulsions are different than B&W and negative color emulsions. Since the process goes to completion (essentially) the emulsions must be "pushed" in one step to insure black blacks and white whites. At the same time, color correction is difficult. How do you correct cyan dye errors in such a process? They were using DIAR couplers when I was there. IDK what the situation is now, or what they intend.

PE

 

[Cholentpot]

You raise a very good point! Yesterday on Instagram, a friend of mine posted that he was shocked how many people were posting photos of their own personal "stash" of Ektachrome in the wake of Kodak's announcement. He was shocked because people seemed to be proud to show film that they haven't actually used while at the same time claiming to be excited about Kodak's announcement...

This hoarding/stashing/freezing issue is of course a big big problem for all film companies in general - one that has been gaining some attention lately in the online film community. I've actually seen the hashtag #shootyourshit being used in online posts - and I could not agree more.

We're not quite sure at this point how we can truly tackle this problem, but it's most certainly on our minds...

I have a shopping bag of film stashed, I save special rolls for special occasions. Film is expensive and rare films are precious so I shoot them sparingly. I'm slowly eating my way through my backlog of film but I'm always on the look out for a good deal to restock. If I run out of affordable film I switch over to the darkside...