Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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Michael Guzzi

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Loved the second video showing the slitter! Nothing beats old machinery IMHO. Built to other standards than the new stuff that just craps itself after a set time. Also notice how quite a few of the parts have a serial number stamped on them. Nice.

Absolutely admire who did the grind job on those cylinders and feed(?) screws. Top notch work.

*knocks on particulate board*
 

cmacd123

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I see its mentioned that the formulas were designed for acetate base, but something that may not have been pointed out, is actually (to my surprise) that most modern films still made today by kodak and fuji are using acetate base.

The only real exception is motion picture films, but also some other stocks like rollei digibase made by agfa that is extremely prone to light piping due to the highly transparent nature of the polyester base.

Motion Picture CAMERA films are generally on Acetate, with a few exceptions like IMAX where the polyester base is stronger.

Poly is used for Movie PRINTS for that reason, and a few lab films. Poly does have better long term storage stability (over 100 years storage)

The digibase was on poly as it is really an Aero film, where the film must keep it's dimensions and work in the cold. it has been sold as a still and movie film just because AGFA - Belgium had it available.

I will agree that for the users that Ferrania is aiming at Acetate is the better base.


Logo-Ferrania.jpg


Also interesting to note is it appears that along the sprocket edge of the last solaris films, was infact the original ferrania logo still imprinted along the frame numbers!

The one on the edge print of the "Post Imation" Ferrania film was a "new one" based on previous logos. there are a couple of stars to the top of the words.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
 

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Nzoomed

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Motion Picture CAMERA films are generally on Acetate, with a few exceptions like IMAX where the polyester base is stronger.

Poly is used for Movie PRINTS for that reason, and a few lab films. Poly does have better long term storage stability (over 100 years storage)

The digibase was on poly as it is really an Aero film, where the film must keep it's dimensions and work in the cold. it has been sold as a still and movie film just because AGFA - Belgium had it available.

I will agree that for the users that Ferrania is aiming at Acetate is the better base.




The one on the edge print of the "Post Imation" Ferrania film was a "new one" based on previous logos. there are a couple of stars to the top of the words.
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Yes sorry, i was referring to cine prints for poly film. I know this because alot of the more modern 16mm prints of mine can only be tape spliced :wink:

As far as the ferrania logo goes, the early solaris film still used it on the packet before the latter logo you have shown.
I had found some scans showing this logo on the sprocket edge, but ill have to dig them up again.
ferrania_solaris_100_35mm_film_grande.jpg


Oh, and this video i think has been shared here before, but im interested to know if this can be confirmed as the LRF or not. Its hard to tell, i dont recognise any part from what ive seen so far.

 

Nzoomed

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Here is one here (see top right corner), but ill find a clearer one later.
old
4018431905_306030722c_m.jpg


new logo, either way, there is no reason why the classic ferrania logo can not be placed along the sprocket edge.
I have seen some films where this was actually half cut off on the edge of the film itself.
Either way, looks cool for lomo, and since many people will share these photos on flickr, it helps promote the ferrania brand, in case anyone does not know, Solaris (and scotchchrome) are both very popular films in the lomo community :wink:
4713019454_f3b49a5d24_z.jpg
 
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Nzoomed

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Here is an earlier version, its still got the classic logo, but they have changed the letter "F" lol
5261148690_17fdcdf04c_b.jpg
 

flavio81

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Nice colors, NZoomed!
 

Nzoomed

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Nice colors, NZoomed!
Yes they are nice colours! (just incase your wondering, i never shot these)
Thats why i want to start shooting the stuff, Ive just bought a stash off ebay.

Solaris is getting rather expensive now. About a year ago it was so stupidly cheap and plentiful on ebay.
 

Chris Livsey

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I will never forget the last Ilford factory tour (with Simon Galley as our tour guide; Simon we miss you!),
Best regards,
Henning

+1 Simon sorely missed here, I to was fortunate to be on what was probably one of the last Ilford tours, when shooting and developing you really feel part of the process after seeing the production.

Simon addresses the class of 2013 Ilford Tour

11074286213_788b3891a9.jpg



11074184075_30618c1d3e.jpg
 

RattyMouse

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Yeah, it is such a shame that Simon is gone. His presence was an amazing shot in the arm for Ilford products.
 

Nzoomed

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Ive just bought a brick of Ferrania Solaris off ebay!
I know that Film Ferrania plan to reintroduce this stock again, but I wanted to have some film that i could say was coated on Big Boy!

I chose ISO 100 film speed, as i feel it would be the finest grain, but im interested to see how the quality differs across film speeds.

Another question for Dave if you are reading.

Did Ferrania actually introduce any "professional" line of films that were likened to portra/ektar or fujocolor pro?

I know im pretty impressed with what i see with Solaris on Flickr, but as far as im aware, it was just a consumer level film?
 

cmacd123

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Did Ferrania actually introduce any "professional" line of films that were likened to portra/ektar or fujocolor pro?

I know im pretty impressed with what i see with Solaris on Flickr,

3M had a vast Photofinishing network, (drop off your film at the drugstore type network) and so they were very much interested in Private label film. K-mart Canada, Zellers and others here in Canada sold their own brand film which was actually made by 3M. (konica and Fuji were the other big players in that business, and when shopping I would pick up which film was in the package by the typeface and location of the expiry date.

3M also got out of the movie (profesional) business fairly early on. SO I suspect that most of the production was C-41 and E6 film to be mostly sold as private label. Not to imply that it was not first quality, or course, any of these retailers did not want complaints about the quality of the film that had the stores own name on it.
 

MattKing

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In Canada, Sears film was 3M.
 
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A note to the Americans above:
While the American capitalists of 3M owned Ferrania and profited from it, the film was always referred to as Ferrania, because that is the name of the factory.
The same goes for the Harman Technology owners of the Ilford factory.

To Nzoomed,
I'll advise you to learn a bit more of Ferrania history before trying to make suggestions that are more based in your desires than the reality like asking them to do E6 chemistry kits. Best leave that to the companies that already do it and are experts in that field like Tetenal.

BTW, the term "professional" used to be used to refer to emulsions that needed to be kept in fridge until they were used.
In other words, it referred to films that were mature, while amateur films had a long maturing and could be kept for a number of years in a plain shelf.
Kodachrome was offered both in professional and amateur version.
"Professional" here had nothing to do with the quality of a film.
 

Photo Engineer

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Ricardo, Scotch films made in the USA and probably in Italy were based on Ferrania formulas to some extent. I knew many of the engineers from 3M and met a few from Ferrania as well. AFAIK, from their explanation, it was an exchange of technology followed by mutual cooperation.

As for professional films, they are of higher image quality in some cases. BTDT.

PE
 

Diapositivo

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A note to the Americans above:
While the American capitalists of 3M owned Ferrania and profited from it, the film was always referred to as Ferrania, because that is the name of the factory.
The same goes for the Harman Technology owners of the Ilford factory.

There was a period when 3M dropped the Ferrania brand completely, and only marketed its film as 3M.

Dead Link Removed
http://thumbs.picclick.com/00/s/MTI...$/2x-rolls-3M-640-T-ISO-ASA-35mm-SLIDE-_1.jpg

Later, or before, as "scotchchrome" with all the tartan and the similarity to the Scotch tape:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/...WxU57LbUWiq-9S7Vx_J3PTbuOJb-JBhuSPyou4sVUcPBO

Still later, the tartan was dropped:

http://www.photographerlink.com/sale-items/rollsexpi-1385694273-58379.jpg
 

FILM Ferrania

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Hi Dave - Looking forward to receiving my film from the Kickstarter, and it's good to see the team making progress!

I didn't see anything on the official site, but will Ferrania be selling any swag (t-shirts, hats, etc.) with logos? Very neat looking, especially some of the historical branding.

Hi Jim,

We were selling swag until just a few days ago. I had to take it offline because all of the inventory is in storage and it's not easy to ship orders at the moment.

Once we have a proper warehouse and some film sales in our pockets, we will of course make some new swag - but for now, every dime is dedicated to production.
 

Oxleyroad

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Glad I got my swag before it went off line :wink:
 

FILM Ferrania

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I see its mentioned that the formulas were designed for acetate base, but something that may not have been pointed out, is actually (to my surprise) that most modern films still made today by kodak and fuji are using acetate base.

You are correct! And most of the base material used by the industry (triacetate or polyester) is produced by just one company in Germany called IPI. It's my understanding that Kodak is now their biggest customer since they shut down their own base production last year (or maybe the year before?)

Depending on the quality of our in-house stockpile of base (all of which must be hand-checked inch by inch), we may need to purchase from IPI for the short term as well. But eventually, we will put "Trixie" online and make our own.


The only real exception is motion picture films, but also some other stocks like rollei digibase made by agfa that is extremely prone to light piping due to the highly transparent nature of the polyester base.

I know there is some concern from the factory team that our existing base material may not be appropriate for cine films, but they will be testing this extensively once we our first coated miniJumbo in-hand.

I guess what im trying to say is when reading the article, it sounds like its an outdated formula from the scotchchrome days, when really its not that outdated at all and acetate film base is on the majority of films made today.

"Outdated" is sort of the wrong word regarding our use of the original Ferrania recipes. Is grandma's recipe for chocolate cake outdated? Probably not - but maybe she used lard where we would now use a less artery-clogging substitute. More accurately, grandma's CAKE, not the recipe, may be dependent on the type of oven and bakeware she used. But grandma can only make one cake at a time in her own kitchen. The "same" cake would obviously be different if she were baking 10,000 of them in an industrial kitchen.

Using this analogy, the old Ferrania only produced the 10,000 cakes, but we're using grandma's recipe (with no lard) and grandma's kitchen!

Other thing regarding logo, perhaps we should take a vote?

Sorry to say that as much as we want community feedback on our products - it's an incredibly slippery slope to open our branding to the general public. Suffice to say that we adore most of Ferrania's old branding and we will keep it where we can and refresh it where we must. But it's of course complicated by the fact that there is still a Ferrania company who may retain ownership of some logos... We're still figuring some of these things out as we move forward.

Also interesting to note is it appears that along the sprocket edge of the last solaris films, was infact the original ferrania logo still imprinted along the frame numbers!
Would be cool to keep these features retained if possible :wink:

At this point, I'm not sure what our precision coater can imprint on the film. I suspect it's not as sophisticated as the big coater - but you raise a good point and I'm going to ask the factory team about it!
 

FILM Ferrania

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I've moved house since the kickstarter, where do I go to change my address and make sure the film goes to me?
Don't want the *rs*h*le who bought my house to get my film as well...
If you check the Kickstarter updates, you'll see that Dead Link Removed. You do it through your Kickstarter account.
At some point, we'll pull the backer database from Kickstarter and we'll email every backer individually to ensure that we have the right address - but it's best that you keep it updated on Kickstarter.
 

FILM Ferrania

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Did Ferrania actually introduce any "professional" line of films that were likened to portra/ektar or fujocolor pro?

I know im pretty impressed with what i see with Solaris on Flickr, but as far as im aware, it was just a consumer level film?

To the best of my knowledge, the Scotchchrome (horrible name) line was the only real attempt by 3M-Ferrania to produce "professional" films, and in my opinion, they never really put the necessary marketing behind it to give it a chance in the market. (Plus they never actually produced some of their best films outside of small batches in teh LRF!) Their bread-and-butter was of course cheap film sold under 300 other brands. And yes, Solaris was considered a "consumer" product.

It's probably now a good time to point out that we think these distinctions are antiquated and really just pointless.

In yesteryear, it was of course prudent for film companies to have top-quality "pro" films that were sold primarily in proper camera shops, and lesser-quality "consumer" films that were sold in grocery stores and big-box retailers at a much lower price point...

Our films will be the best we can produce at all times. You can't really call it "pro" because pros only rarely shoot film these days. And you certainly can't call it "consumer" because that market was swallowed by smartphones. I'm generalizing, of course, but this is the reality as we see it.

I know that our factory team is eager to put Ferrania's consumer-focused past behind us and to show off what they can really do...
 
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Ricardo, Scotch films made in the USA and probably in Italy were based on Ferrania formulas to some extent. I knew many of the engineers from 3M and met a few from Ferrania as well. AFAIK, from their explanation, it was an exchange of technology followed by mutual cooperation.

As for professional films, they are of higher image quality in some cases. BTDT.

PE
Thanks for the note.
I wasn't aware that 3M/Scotch had actually a factory in the USA.
About the label of "Professional", your Koda-mates got the waters muddled, didn't they?
It isn't to admire that some people got the idea that if it hasn't "Professional" on the label, than it can't be good.

I think I'm going to ask Foma to put a "Professional" label on their films and see what is the reaction. :wink:

It's amazing the condescending tone of some of the members here...
Sorry you think that way.
My apologies.

Our films will be the best we can produce at all times. You can't really call it "pro" because pros only rarely shoot film these days. And you certainly can't call it "consumer" because that market was swallowed by smartphones. I'm generalizing, of course, but this is the reality as we see it.
And that's why all film companies had to have a shrinking diet.

On another matter: I understand you are responsible for the website content.
Could I suggest to you to use plain English instead of American English language, please?
It would look better and easier to understand for the rest of the world that doesn't live in the US.
Thanks!
 

Photo Engineer

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Ricardo, you are going to ruffle a lot of feathers with your comment over "plain English" and "American English". To native speakers, there is little to no difference except for the spelling of a few words and some idioms which are not often used here.

As for pro and consumer films, there was an extensive discussion over these films and their features even within the groups doing R&D.

PE
 
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Some of us above commenting are Canadian, not American, Ricardo. Canada, that large land mass above USA. Heard of it?
Yeap, still part of the Commonwealth and in the American continent, unless you paddle it away.
 
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