Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by Sean, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

    Messages:
    4,665
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Mi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Indeed, it should be locked.
     
  2. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,323
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Location:
    Coquitlam,BC Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  3. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Very true!

    In fact, they have a coater that was built by Ferrania and is almost an exact copy of our precision coater - only much larger, producing Agfa-standard jumbos.

    We have of course been in contact with them, but unfortunately, they have not shown interest in contract coating for us. We suspect that they're pretty busy with their own business.

    And in the end, even if we had them coat jumbos of P30 for us - our finishing bottleneck remains.
     
  4. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sure, I'm happy to call this one done and I'll start a new thread when we have something significant to announce.
     
  5. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If we were making x-ray film, we'd be rolling in cash... I can't tell you how many emails we've received from China asking for x-ray products...
     
  6. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    We asked... Maybe you have some additional advice? If so, DM or email me!!
     
  7. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    P30 can be made on nearly any coater with very little problem. The formula itself is quite simple.

    But contract coating on someone else's machine is not nearly as simple as one might hope it to be.
     
  8. pbromaghin

    pbromaghin Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,416
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Location:
    Castle Rock, CO
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I also disagree. It has been immensely entertaining and even informative. It's the first thread I look at upon logging in. If you don't like it, just don't look at it.
     
  9. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The equipment we purchased IS functional, but our Kickstarter campaign did not raise enough to purchase the equipment AND install it - only to make the purchases. Raising enough for installations was not even the goal - we simply needed to save the stuff before it was demolished.
    Installing the equipment carries a separate price tag. Many of the installations require modifications to the building itself (removing walls, reinforcing the floor), plus the labor of moving, rebuilding and testing the machines.

    Regarding P30 - the capacity of Little Boy is far greater than 3000 rolls per week. That number was referring to the maximum capacity of our emulsions making (for now, until we can bring more of "Walter" online).
    The issue regarding P30 is that our finishing partner is limited to around 1000 rolls per week, so coating 3000 rolls per week is pointless.
    We have been working VERY hard on this issue over the past couple of months and we have not yet found a viable alternative.

    If we are able to secure investment, it would greatly speed the process of installations and open our production bottleneck - but without significant sales on the books, we would require an investor who shares and understands our vision, and who can see a very clear path to maximize their ROI.

    So far, no such investor has stepped forward. And so we proceed on our slow and steady course.
     
  10. Mackinaw

    Mackinaw Member

    Messages:
    453
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    One hour sou
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dave, thanks for the update. You mention the film needs to be “finished’ after it’s coated and that your finishing partner is the bottleneck. What exactly is “finishing?”

    Jim B.
     
  11. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Correct.

    We have faced down the "Game Over" moment a couple of times already. It may yet happen, but we will keep working until then.

    We have noted on a few occasions that we have a bottleneck in the finishing process that prevents us from fully utilizing our current capacity.

    "Now doing" is not correct. During the downtime in 2015, while we were awaiting the government's work on the building to be finished, a portion of our team made some test materials for a customer. This is not an ongoing thing.

    Correct - however our social media has been quite active sharing photos made by our pre-sale customers.

    Announcements on Kickstarter and/or our website must be substantive and as correct as they can be. Since August, we have prepared no less than half a dozen updates only to have them become irrelevant due to the constantly changing situation in and around the factory.

    These changes are often far too complex, ephemeral, and just plain-old mundane to warrant the time necessary to summarize them into a post.

    In my opinion, we make every possible effort to be far more transparent than other film manufacturer - but the idea of "full" transparency is both subjective and quite impossible for only two people (me and Nicola) to manage along with everything else we must do.
     
  12. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Finishing is the general term applied to the process of slitting to the correct width, perforating, spooling into cartridges, and packaging.
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    27,721
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    They keep sending me e-mails that advertise custom toll coating with an elaborate web page shown. I have no insider information, but have been in contact with them and know what they can do.

    Best wishes.

    PE
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. FILM Ferrania

    FILM Ferrania Member

    Messages:
    436
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2014
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thank YOU!

    Speaking of impossible jobs - I did US marketing and sales for Impossible from 2010-2013. So I've heard every kind of complaint imaginable - including none other than Mary Ellen Mark (R.I.P.) calling me a fraud to my face.
     
  16. twelvetone12

    twelvetone12 Subscriber

    Messages:
    400
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2015
    Location:
    Over the Alps
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Firstly thanks Dave for continuing to come here to post! It is always interesting to hear your side of things despite the vitriol and and bizarre discussions that seem fake news going on. Which, BTW, are the main reason why I proposed to EOL this thread.
    I'm curious about Carestream (which BTW their site is https://www.tollcoating.com/, I wonder the "toll" to pay!), wasn't it part of Kodak? What was the relationship between Ferrania and Kodak? I know Ferrania made Xray for big K, and sometime in the early 2000s they actually sold the whole division to them. But it seems their relationship was more complex (sorry, I'm curious, I'm a historian and scholar of the XVII century and I just can't help it :wink: )
     
  17. dutchsteammachine

    dutchsteammachine Member

    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2017
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for your incredible hard work Film Ferrania! I normally do not shoot B/W, but will buy some P30 when it gets in stock.

    To an other 100 years of film!

    Ignore the bashing some members have given you, apparently they have nothing but complaints about a group of people who are working tirelessly to produce the medium they shoot on.

    The conversation in the last few pages was a bit silly.


    Film! film film film! film!
     
  18. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,741
    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    Location:
    Stittsville, Ontario
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks once again for Mr. Dave for attempting to bring this rully crowd up to date.

    Interesting news that the Coating facilities at Carestream may have had a Ferrania connection vis the shared production of X-ray film...

    The one concern at the back of my mind is the mention back a week or two ago that the P30 sales so far have been about a "break even" proposition. (At least as far as the ones sold at the backer discount) I am wondering if their is not a more effecient way to make those sales, either by using a third party platform like Amazon, or ebay, or backing onto a existing photo distibution chain.

    As far as the finishing backlog, I dont know who you are currently using for this step - and my few rolls of P30 gave me no clues, but the thought occurs that there are a few folks with lots of finishing capacity (one just on the east of europe and one just off the coast) who might respond to a package deal where they finish some film for you now, so that you can find out the profitable amount to sell) with a promise of a contact for both finishing and private label sales of the e6 film when it starts to flow. Certainly the one on the east of Europe has sold Old Ferrania colour Negative as a private label under the Equicolor trade-name.
     
  19. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    27,721
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    One setup at Carestream coating.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Berri

    Berri Member

    Messages:
    516
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    Location:
    Florence, Italy
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I wouldn't give much weight to that article or any other article about this whole thing. Even if ferrania was actually producing a specialty film for scientific research that alone would be something I'd be proud of. It would also mean that they have a customer who could guarantee a steady income.
     
  21. Harry Callahan

    Harry Callahan Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Location:
    ?
    Shooter:
    Analog
    I think that´s great to hear that your services are wanted! (My advice: Do some x-ray film and start to roll in cash!:wink:)
    Happy to see that you´re back - let me shake your hand no longer wearing boxing gloves.
     
  22. fdonadio

    fdonadio Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Location:
    Atibaia, SP - Brazil
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    It’s easy to put threads (and users) on ignore, so they won’t show up on the “new posts” page. I never did it to threads, but I have a couple of highly annoying users on ignore.
     
  23. Alessandro Serrao

    Alessandro Serrao Member

    Messages:
    1,145
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Location:
    Rome, Italy
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The films is readily available in Italy. Many films stores carry it. Why the Ferrania Shop is still closed?
     
  24. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,323
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Location:
    Coquitlam,BC Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    Dave addressed the reasons why.
     
  25. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,229
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2016
    Location:
    Nashville
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What films?
     
  26. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

    Messages:
    2,463
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Not much good if you live about 800 miles drive from Italy. :wink: