HCB Appreciation

[tcolgate]

When a student would present me with a photograph I would often look at it upside down. I don't this works for every image, but it is a good guide to see if some form of aesthetic composition is at play.

It's a sort of interesting thing that in painting/drawing one trick used is to look at a work in progress in a mirror. It's for a sort of related but maybe different reason, basically to see if you've not got something catastrophically wrong. It's surprisingly easy for your brain to just decide something you've started at for hours looks right. Looking in a mirror causes a swift and thorough re-evaluation.

 

[nikos79]

Regarding the topic of color:
Up to 1970's he was very adamant (against) color. Later towards the end of his life when asked about his initial views on photography if he reconsidered anything he said "None, apart from a few things I said about color".
In one of his last interviews he summarises what he really thinks of color:
"In photography colour remains chemical, not transcendental as it is in painting".
Too bad he wasn't here to take part in our long heated discussion about colour vs black and white...

 

[cliveh]

Very cool. Apart from the the technical stuff I find it very difficult to teach photography

nikos79, I taught some technical stuff, but mainly I would say I was a facilitator, nudging them to experiment and look at the work of others. Also, to understand the value of doing something agaain and again and again. For a few years I also worked as a moderator in assessing A-level artwork for an Examining Board around the country, assessing work in photography, graphics and fine art. The fine art lecturer in my own college once brought some work to show me, where one of her own students had made many repeated drawings of her own hand of about 15 or 20 in total. The Fine Art lecturer, asked me if I thought this was a grade A, as she wasn't sure. I said definately. Do you teach nikos79?

 

[nikos79]

nikos79, I taught some technical stuff, but mainly I would say I was a facilitator, nudging them to experiment and look at the work of others. Also, to understand the value of doing something agaain and again and again. For a few years I also worked as a moderator in assessing A-level artwork for an Examining Board around the country, assessing work in photography, graphics and fine art. The fine art lecturer in my own college once brought some work to show me, where one of her own students had made many repeated drawings of her own hand of about 15 or 20 in total. The Fine Art lecturer, asked me if I thought this was a grade A, as she wasn't sure. I said definately. Do you teach nikos79?

Looks like you have lots of experience! And what you did to ask them to look at the work of others was the best thing to do for them!
No, I don't teach although in the past I have really wanted to become a science teacher. Well, it never happened.
However, I do appreciate teaching a lot, as I had close contact with my own photography teacher and heard a lot of his own questions and thoughts about the teaching methods especially in a field like art

 

[Don_ih]

"They are scatological and coprophagous. They photograph only their anxieties and their neuroses", referencing the works of Richard Avedon, Jean Sudre, David Hamilton, Diane Arbus, Duane Michals, and the late work of Bruce Davidson

"In photography colour remains chemical, not transcendental as it is in painting".

It's a shame such quotes exist, since they mostly show a lack of understanding on Cartier-Bresson's part. "Kids these days and their silly ideas" is what it reads as.

 

[nikos79]

It's a shame such quotes exist, since they mostly show a lack of understanding on Cartier-Bresson's part. "Kids these days and their silly ideas" is what it reads as.

I quoted him because it’s an uncomfortable but coherent position he expressed in an interview.
I’m not asking anyone to agree with it.

 

[Don_ih]

I’m not asking anyone to agree with it.

And I was talking about him, not you.

 

[nikos79]

And I was talking about him, not you.

Got it, thanks for clarifying.
I was talking about Cartier-Bresson’s position. I partly agree with it, especially about color working very differently in photography than in painting, even though I really don’t like the wording.

 

[snusmumriken]

It's a shame such quotes exist, since they mostly show a lack of understanding on Cartier-Bresson's part. "Kids these days and their silly ideas" is what it reads as.

It would be illuminating to know how old he was when he said this. It’s a thing that happens with age. There’s your own way and the wrong way.

 

[nikos79]

It would be illuminating to know how old he was when he said this. It’s a thing that happens with age. There’s your own way and the wrong way.

If I remember correctly it was one of his last interviews but I have to revisit my Aperture Book with his complete interviews to find exactly which one was it.

 

[Don_ih]

It would be illuminating to know how old he was when he said this. It’s a thing that happens with age. There’s your own way and the wrong way.

Seems to be often the case but I wouldn't have pegged Cartier-Bresson for being one of them. Particularly the criticism of newer photographers (all of which are now old and/or dead). It shows an unwillingness to accept that others can use the medium in their own way. It's not something he should have concerned himself with. It's like refusing to acknowledge the value of a different culture.

I partly agree with it, especially about color working very differently in photography than in painting

Meaning what? My guess is you can't come up with two cogent words to say about it. Colour photography is a different animal from black and white. Photography itself is different from painting. But colour photography "works" a lot more like painting than black and white does.

 

[nikos79]

Seems to be often the case but I wouldn't have pegged Cartier-Bresson for being one of them. Particularly the criticism of newer photographers (all of which are now old and/or dead). It shows an unwillingness to accept that others can use the medium in their own way. It's not something he should have concerned himself with. It's like refusing to acknowledge the value of a different culture.

Maybe I should find the exact paragraph where he said and what exactly and put it here. Or maybe not even his words felt embarrassing and bad for the other artists.

Meaning what? My guess is you can't come up with two cogent words to say about it. Colour photography is a different animal from black and white. Photography itself is different from painting. But colour photography "works" a lot more like painting than black and white does.

What he acknowledged was that color in photography was a whole new uncontrolled parameter that he should consider, making things exponentially more difficult. And that the color in painting is a tool for transformation while in photography just a reality check

 

[nikos79]

HCB also advised young photographers to study Lohte's book about composition. Anyone ever read it?

 

[snusmumriken]

HCB also advised young photographers to study Lohte's book about composition. Anyone ever read it?

Never seen it. Do you know the title?

 

[nikos79]

Never seen it. Do you know the title?

Treatise on Landscape Painting, 1939

 

[Pioneer]

It is a book on Landscape Painting but it is long out of print - 75 years.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Maybe I should find the exact paragraph where he said and what exactly and put it here. Or maybe not even his words felt embarrassing and bad for the other artists.



What he acknowledged was that color in photography was a whole new uncontrolled parameter that he should consider, making things exponentially more difficult. And that the color in painting is a tool for transformation while in photography just a reality check

There would be little or no BW photography if color film were developed first.

 

[snusmumriken]

Treatise on Landscape Painting, 1939

Thanks. Traités du paysage. I can't find a translation. Many copies in French available online. It looks quite an undertaking unless one's French is very good. Have you read it yourself?

Somewhat easier, I've just been studying a few photobooks upside-down out of curiosity.

 

[cliveh]

There would be little or no BW photography if color film were developed first.

I very much disagree. Black & white photography is akin to drawing and the grey scale tonal divisions enhance a certain type of aesthetic in composition.

 

[nikos79]

Thanks. Traités du paysage. I can't find a translation. Many copies in French available online. It looks quite an undertaking unless one's French is very good. Have you read it yourself?

Somewhat easier, I've just been studying a few photobooks upside-down out of curiosity.

No but I found an English edition of 1950 might be somewhere freely available as a PDF

 

[nikos79]

Somewhat easier, I've just been studying a few photobooks upside-down out of curiosity.

And?

 

[nikos79]

I very much disagree. Black & white photography is akin to drawing and the grey scale tonal divisions enhance a certain type of aesthetic in composition.

Yes that was practically what HCB said in the interviews that the absence of colors allows him to concentrate more on composition and forms and geometry without the added complexity of colour

 

[nikos79]

I think Dora Maar (quite good photographer) was also a student and influenced by HCB painting teacher

 

[snusmumriken]

And?

No conclusion - at any rate, not yet.

 

[nikos79]

No conclusion - at any rate, not yet.

If anything I would expect it to strongly favour and reveal left-right symmetry.
And also create more tension between forms now that every obvious "message" is gone.
Top-bottom symmetry and balance I would expect that it will make much harder to evaluate