Has anyone solved the Foma purple spots problem?

[Rudeofus]

So I'd like to add a few more thoughts about this purple spots issue. now we all know that an ethanol/isopropyl wash would dissolve the purple spots in a few mins, even post-drying, and the solvent would turn pink afterwards. That confirms that the spots are non-water-soluble residuals of anti-halation layers, as opined by Foma themselves earlier.

I can definitely confirm, that I was able to remove these spots with a strong, fresh fixer and did not need any tensides or non-polar solvents. My experience also tells me, that this is rather a sensitizer dye sticking to silver ions than a non water soluble anti halation dye.

 

[pentaxuser]

This thread just made it up on top again and I noticed I had participated to it a while ago.

I would like to update my findings above in that I now have, finally, stumbled on a defective (dots) batch of Foma 100 in 120.

Batch number is 023856-4 (8/2027).

. Unfortunately, for my taste and based on my current understanding of the material, Kentmere MF film is absolutely no replacement for the beautiful Foma 100 and Foma 200.

Can I ask what are the differences that you have found between Foma 100 and 200 and presumably Kentmere 100 that decided you on Kentmere being no replacement?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[albireo]

Can I ask what are the differences that you have found between Foma 100 and 200 and presumably Kentmere 100 that decided you on Kentmere being no replacement?

Thanks

pentaxuser

I haven't made any formal tests, and I have much more experience with Foma than with Kentmere. This means my lack of experience with Kentmere is possibly the culprit here.

Having said this, with the cameras and processing I use, I have so far been unable to replicate, with Kentmere 100, the incredibly beautiful highlights I routinely get with Foma 100 in 120.

There's probably a developer/dilution match that will give me what I seek with Kentmere 100, but so far I haven't found it (to be fair, I haven't tested many).

The question is whether I want to hope that they fix Foma 100 and stick to it, or move to Kentmere 100 and do some thorough testing to get what I want.

 

[shadowleaves]

I can definitely confirm, that I was able to remove these spots with a strong, fresh fixer and did not need any tensides or non-polar solvents. My experience also tells me, that this is rather a sensitizer dye sticking to silver ions than a non water soluble anti halation dye.

Maybe; maybe we are both right. would it be possible that a non-polar solvent such as IPA just dissolves the dye while a strong fixer removes the silver particles along with the dye attaching to them? in any sense, I use two-bath fixing and my 2nd stage fixer is quite fresh and potent confirmed by leader test. If that doesn't remove the dye, or the dye-silver complex/whatsoever, it really seems a dealbreaker for me to continue to use foma 120 format. I can't just discard my fixer each and every time. And if it's a dedicated super fixer to re-use, we are back to the problem of why foma needs an additional step/hassle/why don't we just use enthanol/IPA and all that...until one day we'll just say enough is enough and move on.

 

[shadowleaves]

I haven't made any formal tests, and I have much more experience with Foma than with Kentmere. This means my lack of experience with Kentmere is possibly the culprit here.

Having said this, with the cameras and processing I use, I have so far been unable to replicate, with Kentmere 100, the incredibly beautiful highlights I routinely get with Foma 100 in 120.

There's probably a developer/dilution match that will give me what I seek with Kentmere 100, but so far I haven't found it (to be fair, I haven't tested many).

The question is whether I want to hope that they fix Foma 100 and stick to it, or move to Kentmere 100 and do some thorough testing to get what I want.

maybe all you need is to push Kentmere for 1 stop to get that extra highlights. That seems to be my experience with Kentmere 400.

 

[Rudeofus]

Maybe; maybe we are both right. would it be possible that a non-polar solvent such as IPA just dissolves the dye while a strong fixer removes the silver particles along with the dye attaching to them? in any sense, I use two-bath fixing and my 2nd stage fixer is quite fresh and potent confirmed by leader test. If that doesn't remove the dye, or the dye-silver complex/whatsoever, it really seems a dealbreaker for me to continue to use foma 120 format. I can't just discard my fixer each and every time. And if it's an dedicated super fixer to re-use, we are back to the problem of why foma needs an additional step/hassle/why don't we just use enthanol/IPA and all that...until one day we'll just say enough is enough and move on.

That bottle of "super fixer" would likely last for years. It is effectively used as "fixer 3", which means there isn't a whole lot of silver to dissolve. Being neutral its shelf life will be measured in years, not months. If one didn't want to mess with raw chems, I'd assume that TF-5 is about as close as it gets to this "super fix".

 

[albireo]

maybe all you need is to push Kentmere for 1 stop to get that extra highlights. That seems to be my experience with Kentmere 400.

The highlights+tonality I seek are usually obtained by overexposing and under-developing, so quite the opposite

I really don't like the look of pushed, scanned film. I routinely expose Kentmere 400 at 250EI and develop slowly, gently, and shortly with e.g. D23. Looks good to me.

 

[Sanug]

I solved the multiple Foma issues: I don't buy Foma Films anymore.

Kentmere lacks contrast if exposed at box speed. Pulling makes it worse. Kentmere 100 can be exposed at 200 without becoming too hard. I use XT-3, 1+2, 16 Min. with excellent results.

 

[albireo]

Kentmere lacks contrast if exposed at box speed. Pulling makes it worse.

I disagree. It's a matter of taste. Pulling Kentmere slightly usually makes it better for my taste (though of course it'll depend on the quality of the light in the scene). But still not quite what I can get with Foma 100

 

[ic-racer]

Has anyone got this to work with Retropan? I just got done soaking for about 15min in EtOH with no change. I'm doing 8x10 and the purple spots are more like specs. 1.4x enlargement they are not very noticeable. But the purple specs do bother me when under the loupe on the negatives. Maybe they will show on a 20x24".

 

[shadowleaves]

Has anyone got this to work with Retropan? I just got done soaking for about 15min in EtOH with no change. I'm doing 8x10 and the purple spots are more like specs. 1.4x enlargement they are not very noticeable. But the purple specs do bother me when under the loupe on the negatives. Maybe they will show on a 20x24".

Need to agitate it like u do it with prints in a tray. Just soaking it in ethanol wont help much or at least it will need much longer time. 70% IPA seems to work as well, but also needs agitation.

 

[shadowleaves]

I solved the multiple Foma issues: I don't buy Foma Films anymore.

Kentmere lacks contrast if exposed at box speed. Pulling makes it worse. Kentmere 100 can be exposed at 200 without becoming too hard. I use XT-3, 1+2, 16 Min. with excellent results.

Btw I emailed foma and asking about their plan with the anti halation layer.

They confirmed the purple spots are AHL residuals only soluble in ethanol/isopropyl and they will be rolling out a new AHL formula fully soluble in water, possibly sometime during second half of this year or next year.

 

[albireo]

they will be rolling out a new AHL formula fully soluble in water, possibly sometime during second half of this year or next year.

Sounds like good news. I'm hopeful!

 

[ic-racer]

Need to agitate it like u do it with prints in a tray. Just soaking it in ethanol wont help much or at least it will need much longer time. 70% IPA seems to work as well, but also needs agitation.

Thanks I'll try it again.

 

[shadowleaves]

Thanks I'll try it again.

And maybe its better to do it outdoor or at least with good ventilation. Vaporization from agitating a large tray of isopropyl or ethanol solution is likely harmful to health…

 

[ic-racer]

Denatured alcohol available in USA has no inhalation toxicity with normal use and poses no chronic health threat.

It is highly flammable (Class I, same as gasoline). My darkroom has two fire extinguishers and smoke detector which I feel is adequate fire safety to use the product indoors. I might think twice about a tray of it any larger than 8x10, however, due to the increased flame risk a larger surface area produces.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Thanks. I just washed them away with 70% isopropyl for 5mins

That's the proper way to do it.
No need of extra strong fixer solutions, which can ruin your images...

 

[JackZZ]

Ok guys, I just bought some Foma 100/200 120 roll films after years of not using them and...the purple spots return. Fomapan 200 batch is "014256 6" with exp date "05 2027". Fomapan 100's batch no. is "023856 3" with exp date "06 2027". I have emailed Foma to ask for ways to get rid of them...as I have tried all sort of ways to no avail. Water re-washing, photo flo, HCA wash, etc...

Developed by Rodinal 1:50 btw. Not sure if Rodinal made it worse?

Image mode scan:
View attachment 392531

B/W mode scan:
View attachment 392532

My recent 2 rolls of Fomapan 100 have the lot number of 023856 4 and exp. date of 08 2027, very close to yours, and they also have very similar spots! They're in fact the first two rolls of film I developed myself. I didn't notice anything wrong with them at first, and sent them for scanning in the lab I've went to for development and scanning. The images came back with these jarring white dots that I've never seen on previous rolls of Fomapan that I shot and sent to them for dev. Only some of those past rolls showed minor white spots, in which the size and number of the spots are just a fraction of what's in the negs I developed myself. As a side note, the lab uses Ilford chemicals, especially DDX developer.

the above is a quarter of a 6x6 neg

A lab technician told me that he thought it's most likely just poor quality control from Foma, as dusts don't show up like this. When I came back to look at my negs more closely, I noticed lots of tiny red or purple dots on the negs.

This image doesn't show the color of those dots very well, they're definitely red or purple.

Luckily I was able to find out about this being potentially caused by anti halation layer not coming off of the film, even to find someone with problematic films from the same batch as mine!

To make sure I'm having the same issue of this anti halation layer not coming off, I'll first try the ethanol solution on these blank strips I cut off from the two ends of the roll. I'll report on my results.

Just for complete information, here's my development process.
Jobo 2820 tank with Jobo 2502 reel.
No pre-soak.
PC-TEA developer, with 0.1g of benzotriazol per 500ml of PC-TEA to prevent fog, 1+100 dilution with distilled water at 20~21℃, semi-stand dev for 25 minutes (for each 10 minutes, agitate by inversion for the first 1 minute, then let it stand for the remaining 9 minutes, repeat until the desired development time is reached).
Stop with 1500ml of distilled water, 1 minute continuous agitation by inversion.
350ml of fresh TF-2 fixer made with distilled water for 6 minutes, continuous manual rolling at around 75rpm on a roller base.
Wash using reverse osmosis water with 5 repetitions of the following process: fill with 1500ml of water, 1 minute continuous agitation by inversion, 1 minute stand, discard water.
A final wash with 500ml of distilled water for 2 minutes, manually rolling on the roller base.
Hang to dry in the bathroom.

I think apart from those dots from anti halation layer, the negs came out okay. Here's another shot for reference.