Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[mshchem]

Now I think it's 220!

 

[Agulliver]

It would seem odd for Harman to reproduce Kodak chemistry or B&W films of the past, when they'd be in direct competition with Ilford branded products. Which is why I doubt my own idea about Fuji B&W films of the past being involved.

220 would kind of make sense with the phoenix, but not with the money, time and effort on a complete new branding exercise.

I just dunno. It's all intriguing. And it's getting us talking. Which means, so far, it's working. If it turns out to be something of a let down, it could backfire. I notice on Instagram they are promising that it won't be a letdown.

 

[halfaman]

I cannot see Harman producing anything that uses environmentally degrading chemistry as in colour papers or films.

According to professional labs, many people don't want the developed film back and they are ok just with the scans. I think it would make sense to produced film with a biodegradable base for these cases where the interest in long term storage is null.

 

[tykos]

regarding kodak chemistry: adox' new D76 has a nice (R) in their packaging. They obtained the trademark just to pass it to harman less than a year later? harman runs a new kodak chemicals line with no d76?
none of these options seem to have any sense.

 

[Ian Grant]

Kodak sold the rights to manufacture their chemistry so it's not so simple for someone else to manufacture the exact formulae, and use the trade names. D76 is different because it was essentially an open source formula use around the world in the cine industry before WWII, so many companies made D76, Defender (Dupont) 6, Ilford ID-11, May & Baker 320 and many more.

Ian

 

[Agulliver]

Any photo chemical that has a well known, open source can be manufactured by anyone....though names might well be protected....hence Ilford selling something nigh on identical to D76 as ID-11...and anyone else could do similar. It's not even that difficult to make it up. If you have an old copy of the Ilford Manual of Photography there are loads of formulae for various developers, fixers etc. in there.

The environmental impact of photographic film and it's associated industries is negligible compared to many other industries, militaries and so on. Firstly the industry is way smaller than it once was...orders of magnitude smaller....and secondly environmental protection is much more serious than it was. Even Greta Thunberg isn't going to be upset if Ilford actually does announce that they've perfected C41 film and are going into production in time for Christmas.

The phoenix does strongly suggest something from the past coming back. The use of the Harman name suggests it's something they cannot sell under the Ilford name, and don't want to sell under the Kentmere name - as I believe they own that outright? Or did the Kentmere box/package company retain usage outside of B&W film/paper?

EDIT - Kentmere Packaging still exists as a separate entity so presumably Harman only have the license to use the Kentmere name on a limited range of products too.

So I now confidently predict that Harman is going into the packaging industry and are introducing a cardboard box.

Harman have changed packaging in the last few years to make the Harman name more prominent. Could this be part of a longer term strategy?

 

[Prest_400]

220 would kind of make sense with the phoenix, but not with the money, time and effort on a complete new branding exercise.

I just dunno. It's all intriguing. And it's getting us talking. Which means, so far, it's working. If it turns out to be something of a let down, it could backfire. I notice on Instagram they are promising that it won't be a letdown.

Yes. But it excludes 35mm which is a very large and significant format that has the boradest outreach. 220 has always been a niche even in the pro days and should not run into Ilford branding issues. Harman HP5 220 vs Ilford HP5 in 220 can be so.

 

[Ian Grant]

So I now confidently predict that Harman is going into the packaging industry and are introducing a cardboard box.

Harman have changed packaging in the last few years to make the Harman name more prominent. Could this be part of a longer term strategy?

Harman already sell cardboard boxes in three sizes

Ian

 

[Helge]

According to professional labs, many people don't want the developed film back and they are ok just with the scans. I think it would make sense to produced film with a biodegradable base for these cases where the interest in long term storage is null.

That is a practice that should be condemned and discouraged wherever and however possible.

The people who say they are ok with this, don’t know what they are agreeing to.

And the labs and photo stores lock themselves out of whole lucrative market of rescanning and printing that we haven’t seen the start of yet.

Film takes up very little space. And film is the final product. No drugstore print or scan holds even close to how much information there is on the film.

 

[Helge]

The last thing we need is a new camera.
There is far more need for practically anything but cameras.
For example:

- We desperately need a much better and affordable multi format scanner.
8000 dpi and all formats from 110 to 120 at the price of a new Plustek scanner is absolutely possible.
It’s fruit ready to be plucked by any manufacturer ready to try it.
They’d absolutely dominate the market and remove one of the biggest hurdles to the further spread and adoption of film photography.

- Making wet printing much easier and more accessible. For example by removing the need for a dark room, which is very hard to come by in urban environments.
Funnel printing projectors was a thing decades back. It will make dodge and burn impossible (unless a further complication like an LCD mask is included) size is going to be limited.
But it would do wonders for black and white printing.

 

[tykos]

Kodak sold the rights to manufacture their chemistry so it's not so simple for someone else to manufacture the exact formulae, and use the trade names. D76 is different because it was essentially an open source formula use around the world in the cine industry before WWII, so many companies made D76, Defender (Dupont) 6, Ilford ID-11, May & Baker 320 and many more.

Ian

yes, but the adox packaging has "D-76 (R)"

maybe no one registred it in EU prior to Adox? and Kodak has nothing to say about it?
It's quite funny, given all the recent shenanigans related to trademarks and such.

Still: if harman were to produce kodak chemicals, they couldn't use this name in the EU, and they would badly damage their line of products, which has a lot of equivalent formulas.

 

[warden]

- We desperately need a much better and affordable multi format scanner.

Ditto.

 

[Agulliver]

A multi-format film scanner would be useful for me....110, 127, 120 and 135. But I suspect that if such a thing really were easy to bring to market, then epson or Plustek or one of the generic scanner brands would have done so already. Good idea though, and it might be something that Harman would prefer to brand with their name over Ilford or Kentmere.

I would agree that quality home scanning made easier would help sell more film. Especially if the device was reasonably compact and not too expensive yet gave excellent quality. Speed is another thing, the flatbed solution works in terms of quality but it can take an hour to scan one 35mm film on there.

They already do the Ilford dark tent, which is a tad small but does provide a pop up dark room.

 

[Helge]

A multi-format film scanner would be useful for me....110, 127, 120 and 135. But I suspect that if such a thing really were easy to bring to market, then epson or Plustek or one of the generic scanner brands would have done so already. Good idea though, and it might be something that Harman would prefer to brand with their name over Ilford or Kentmere.

I would agree that quality home scanning made easier would help sell more film. Especially if the device was reasonably compact and not too expensive yet gave excellent quality. Speed is another thing, the flatbed solution works in terms of quality but it can take an hour to scan one 35mm film on there.

They already do the Ilford dark tent, which is a tad small but does provide a pop up dark room.

Plustek just insists on going with the same old blueprint for decades.
It’s probably to do with manufacturing and tooling.
But if you look at all the small scale, short run stuff that has plastic molds and PCBs made, then it can’t be that much of a hindrance.

A really good scanner could be as simple as a vertical U-bracket of the right depth, with an RGB LED light on the bottom leg and a macro lens and a small high res (plus 12 MP) monocrome sensor on the top.
Film would be manually moved in a plane, in a holder on a simple pantograph mechanism or slider.

It would be possible, very quickly (10 seconds or so) to grab 10 overlapping exposures with the RGB triad being cycled for colour.

Basically how the super successful Minolta and Canon scanners worked only with much older (running on twenty years) technology and complicating motors and gears, and of course enclosed in a box.
So very much a proven concept.

 

[pentaxuser]

I just dunno. It's all intriguing. And it's getting us talking. Which means, so far, it's working. If it turns out to be something of a let down, it could backfire. I notice on Instagram they are promising that it won't be a letdown.

I certainly find the thread entertaining but in my case the intrigue is wearing thin. Mind you I am not of the demographic that apparently loves this kind of "tease" so maybe there is more mileage in it

Do Instagram know more than the rest of us? Well of course! Everyone who relies on their "beíng in the know" for their income knows what it is. They always do

pentaxuser

 

[ags2mikon]

Why do I keep yawning?

 

[Dustin McAmera]

And the winner of the cha-cha is...
(hold your breath...)
(scratch your ear..)
(wonder if the presenter has got his cards in the wrong order...)
(start breathing again...)
(drink a sip of your coffee...)
(wonder if the presenter is having a seizure...)
(switch over and see what's on the other channel.)

 

[Anon Ymous]

 

[mshchem]

Yes!!!!!

 

[Anon Ymous]

Yes!!!!!

This has taken a bit too long, hasn't it?

 

[retina_restoration]

It's worth keeping in mind that the Phoenix symbol suggests (no ambiguity as far as I'm concerned) that this is a "resurrection" of something Harman/Ilford once offered.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

... unless they're going to sell actual self-immolating parrots.

 

[Ian Grant]

... unless they're going to sell actual self-immolating parrots.

 

[warden]

This has taken a bit too long, hasn't it?

They made the announcement a week ago, which is kind of long in social media time. These things are less frustrating when the announcement includes a specific date. They also haven’t followed up with new posts since then, which is amateurish if the goal is to generate social media interest and followers. The growth on that instagram account is petering out due to a lack of effort. Maybe the eventual announcement will make up for that. We’ll know “soon”.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why do I keep yawning?

I am not yawning, but I would like to have the second shoe drop and find out what the new product or product change is. Yes, I am tired of waiting.