Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[BrianShaw]

Woo hoo, let’s throw a photo walk for you, @Rolleiflexible !

 

[bfilm]

Yes i understand ilford are supplied by ipi, which is the original agfa/orwo wolfen film base facility. EK also used to produce acetate base and stated they stockpiled a large volume when that line was closed down. Their shift to polyester makes sense as they can still produce it in house rather than rely on imports, but presumably now rely on buying in acetate for movie film

Yes, Kodak is a curious one. I think Kodak is still putting most 135 films on acetate base. And I think many of the 120 films are also on acetate base. Unless they have changed it without updating the technical data publications. And Kodak Alaris, frustratingly, does not always put the base specification in the technical data publications. But they have started putting some of the 120 films on ESTAR polyester base, like Ektachrome E100 in 120 format. And I think Gold 200 is on ESTAR polyester base in 135 and 120 format.

 

[Brad Deputy]

Kodak has moved to ESTAR (poly) for all consumer films now. (ColorPlus, Gold, Ultramax), and even one pro (Portra 800).
There is speculation whether or not they move the pro films over, too.

 

[MattKing]

EK also used to produce acetate base and stated they stockpiled a large volume when that line was closed down. Their shift to polyester makes sense as they can still produce it in house rather than rely on imports, but presumably now rely on buying in acetate for movie film

As well as most of their still roll films: the Portra films, Ektachrome in 135, their black and white films.
Recent disruptions in Europe and toward the East have had a large effect on the worldwide availability of acetate base, which relies on inputs from the petrochemical industry..

 

[bfilm]

Kodak has moved to ESTAR (poly) for all consumer films now. (ColorPlus, Gold, Ultramax), and even one pro (Portra 800).
There is speculation whether or not they move the pro films over, too.

I wish they would keep the technical data publications current, so that this information was more easily accessible.

I hope they don't move everything over to ESTAR polyester base, but perhaps I am more of an acetate purist than most people.

As far as I know, all of Harman and Fujifilm are still acetate base in both 135 and 120 format.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak has moved to ESTAR (poly) for all consumer films now. (ColorPlus, Gold, Ultramax), and even one pro (Portra 800).
There is speculation whether or not they move the pro films over, too.

I believe Gold 200 is still on acetate in 135.

 

[MattKing]

I wish they would keep the technical data publications current, so that this information was more easily accessible.

I hope they don't move everything over to ESTAR polyester base, but perhaps I am more of an acetate purist than most people.

As far as I know, all of Harman and Fujifilm are still acetate base in both 135 and 120 format.

The process of switching film from acetate to polyester base is relatively complex and expensive. It made sense when they brought out the new 120 sizes for Ektachrome and Gold 200, because they had to do a bunch of re-engineering anyways. But for other formats, they take a big hit on costs and production stoppages when they switch.

 

[bfilm]

believe Gold 200 is still on acetate in 135.

This appears to be a change in the last year. The 2022 Gold 200 technical data publication says acetate base for 135. The 2023 Gold 200 technical data publication, accessed on the professional category 120 format on the website, lists ESTAR polyester base for 135.

 

[MattKing]

This appears to be a change in the last year. The 2022 Gold 200 technical data publication says acetate base for 135. The 2023 Gold 200 technical data publication, accessed on the professional category 120 format on the website, lists ESTAR polyester base for 135.

Thanks - I see that now.

 

[Brad Deputy]

Aye, I have personal experience with ColorPlus and Ultramax @ ESTAR only, but heard others (here, and Reddit) claiming the brand new packaging of Gold 200 is ESTAR too.
(Kodak has already admitted Portra 800)

 

[bfilm]

I should perhaps correct my above statement, "As far as I know, all of Harman and Fujifilm are still acetate base in both 135 and 120 format.", to say that all of the Japan-made Fujifilm is acetate base. I suspect the so-called Fujifilm consumer films made by Kodak are on the ESTAR polyester base.

 

[Brad Deputy]

I picked up a 3-pack of Fuji 400 (Ultramax) last month, and it is definitely acetate still. Could it change?

I am curious as to if their shift to polyester is temporary, just for supply issues. I also understand the demand for acetate for their cinema stocks remains very high, so that's where the priority lies?

 

[warden]

Photographer Marcus Mcadam based in Skye (Scotland) posted a picture of his 35mm film camera stating it contains a new film from Harman he’d been sent a couple of rolls to test.

‘As you can see, I’m getting ready to shoot a few environmental portraits of a gamekeeper, to see how it handles the tones and textures of the scene’.

He covers film / analog photography in the ‘photography show‘ on youtube, but has been around long enough to remember when film was photography.

Cool!

 

[bfilm]

Nope, I have the Ultramax 400 (aka Fuji Superia), brand new, and it is acetate.

I am curious as to if their shift to polyester is temporary, just for supply issues. I also understand the demand for acetate for their cinema stocks remains very high, so that's where the priority lies?

Are you referring to the Fujifilm 400? The Fujifilm 200 data sheet is 2022 and says acetate base. The Fujifilm 400 data sheet is 2023 and does not give the base material -- an unusual omission for Fujifilm -- and I suspected this might be a similar 2022 to 2023 change of base material from acetate to polyester like we saw with Kodak Gold 200.

The professional color reversal films that Fujifilm manufactures themselves in Japan remain on acetate base in 135 and 120 format.

 

[0x001688936CA08]

Photographer Marcus Mcadam based in Skye (Scotland) posted a picture of his 35mm film camera stating it contains a new film from Harman he’d been sent a couple of rolls to test.

Here's the first sentence from his Instagram post:

Inside this camera is a brand new film from Harman Photo (makers of Ilford films). It offers something different to all their existing films.​

It's kind of surprising that this is the only non-Harman confirmation it's a new film (that I'm aware of), and that it hasn't been discussed here yet. Weird.

At any rate, I can't see it being anything other than a colour film if the words "offers something different to all their existing films" are to be believed.

 

[Prest_400]

I am curious as to if their shift to polyester is temporary, just for supply issues. I also understand the demand for acetate for their cinema stocks remains very high, so that's where the priority lies?

Again paraphrasing PE, changing the base material also involves a substantial effort of engineering so it should be ESTAR.

As a medium format user, and for specially B&W, I think Polyester makes much sense as a base material. It is more stable for archival and dimensional uses. I need to research it further, but the acetates (Older Safety film Diacetate and Triacetate) eventually are prone to vinegar syndrome. Relevant? So far private collections are safe and 50 yo film bases are fine, but it's nice to be young and plan to live long and think archival.
On the line of archival, a question mark of new non Kodak or Fuji films are archival qualities, this was part of the improvements they did back in the heydays.

Back to Harman it's still gonna be interesting, and cool to have some more concrete rumours.

 

[cmacd123]

This appears to be a change in the last year. The 2022 Gold 200 technical data publication says acetate base for 135. The 2023 Gold 200 technical data publication, accessed on the professional category 120 format on the website, lists ESTAR polyester base for 135.

120 and 135 are quite different and 120 tipically has a thiner base. Also 120 does not have an issue with Light Piping. as the film is always wrapped in paper when out of the Camera. the two types do have a different "feel" as the Poly base is Stiffer.

when the movie folks started using Poly for theater prints, they found that the film had to be thiner to give them the same defree of Stiffness. also the projectors were often retrofitted with shear pins in case of a jam.

 

[mshchem]

Here's the first sentence from his Instagram post:

Inside this camera is a brand new film from Harman Photo (makers of Ilford films). It offers something different to all their existing films.​

It's kind of surprising that this is the only non-Harman confirmation it's a new film (that I'm aware of), and that it hasn't been discussed here yet. Weird.

At any rate, I can't see it being anything other than a colour film if the words "offers something different to all their existing films" are to be believed.

There's no filter on the lens that rules out tungsten

 

[0x001688936CA08]

There's no filter on the lens that rules out tungsten

Dammit, was hoping for Harman 800T.

 

[BrianShaw]

Here's the first sentence from his Instagram post:

Inside this camera is a brand new film from Harman Photo (makers of Ilford films). It offers something different to all their existing films.​

It's kind of surprising that this is the only non-Harman confirmation it's a new film (that I'm aware of), and that it hasn't been discussed here yet. Weird.

At any rate, I can't see it being anything other than a colour film if the words "offers something different to all their existing films" are to be believed.

He’s letting the cat out of the bag!

 

[Dusty Negative]

PS My 45 years of living in California have validated what Ansel Adams said, namely, there's nothing of photographic interest south of San Luis Obispo.

Indeed. Nothing at all. Except awe-inspiring deserts, mountains, rivers, an ocean, and rivers.

 

[AnselMortensen]

He’s letting the cat out of the bag!

Probably won't be getting any more perks from Harman....

 

[mshchem]

He’s letting the cat out of the bag!

What will happen when we find out all these beautiful colors are from a Sony sensor

 

[tokam]

He’s letting the cat out of the bag!

Or this is part of a cunning PR strategy by Harman to drip feed non-specific details ahead of the big reveal. Only 13 days to go.

If it is a C-41 film, I wonder where he will get it processed, (secretly), before the release date. He may just buy a Bellini kit and do it himself.

 

[Overrank]

Or this is part of a cunning PR strategy by Harman to drip feed non-specific details ahead of the big reveal. Only 13 days to go.

If it is a C-41 film, I wonder where he will get it processed, (secretly), before the release date. He may just buy a Bellini kit and do it himself.

Harman Lab already develop C41 (for XP2, but also colour films)

They also print colour (which they didn’t used to do….)