It's a pretty one for sure. I got one just like it, only older.
Well, looks like @pentaxuser made it to being an influencer, albeit directly. 15 seconds of YouTube fame, yay!
Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser
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It's a pretty one for sure. I got one just like it, only older.
Well, looks like @pentaxuser made it to being an influencer, albeit directly. 15 seconds of YouTube fame, yay!
Fairly certain because they've explicitly said it is not?
Inoviscoat coated a very decent film for Adox some years ago. I'd hope Harman can do at least as well as that. I can't see them selling stuff as horrible as NC500.
I’ve had the influencer vaccine.
I hope we are all aware that the Ilford branded cameras have been available for some time and are nothing to do with Harman.
And that the "Ilfocolor" film that has seen some limited availability in recent times has nothing to do with Harman at all.
Harman do market some "reusable cameras" that look a bit like other products that come from Reto, with the camera branded Harman and the film contained within being identified as Ilford.
None of us knows the exact terms under which Harman can use the Ilford name and associated websites and social media accounts. We do know that it includes B&W film products and darkroom products, and specifically excludes colour film, paper and chemicals. Whether that also precludes "Ilford" social media accounts from following and interacting with "Harman Photo" is unknown but it is one explanation....that Harman need to keep this new product separate from Ilford and Kentmere so there's no crossover in branding, no interaction. FWIW there doesn't even seem to be an Instagram account for Kentmere film/paper.
@Rolleiflexible Harman have now made it clear, as have some of the content creators/influencers, that this is going to be the debut of a new product. The influencers have been sent something, a product, to test and to make content with. There is an embargo on exactly what this product is, but we'll find out on December 1. Some of us did wonder if it was a rebrand from Ilford to Harman but that would only ever be something they'd do if the absolutely had to from a legal standpoint (if their license to use the Ilford name couldn't be continued). The video that has been linked is fairly good at summarising the available facts, and a couple of weeks ago they seemed to point to two possibilities.....a rebrand from Ilford to Harman or a colour film. Because many people who have actually visited Harman's facilities felt that Harman being able to produce colour film was nigh on impossible, thoughts turned to a rebrand. But now it has been made explicitly clear this is a new product that they cannot sell under the Ilford banner.
And that the "Ilfocolor" film that has seen some limited availability in recent times has nothing to do with Harman at all.
Harman do market some "reusable cameras" that look a bit like other products that come from Reto, with the camera branded Harman and the film contained within being identified as Ilford.
None of us knows the exact terms under which Harman can use the Ilford name and associated websites and social media accounts. We do know that it includes B&W film products and darkroom products, and specifically excludes colour film, paper and chemicals. Whether that also precludes "Ilford" social media accounts from following and interacting with "Harman Photo" is unknown but it is one explanation....that Harman need to keep this new product separate from Ilford and Kentmere so there's no crossover in branding, no interaction. FWIW there doesn't even seem to be an Instagram account for Kentmere film/paper.
@Rolleiflexible Harman have now made it clear, as have some of the content creators/influencers, that this is going to be the debut of a new product. The influencers have been sent something, a product, to test and to make content with. There is an embargo on exactly what this product is, but we'll find out on December 1. Some of us did wonder if it was a rebrand from Ilford to Harman but that would only ever be something they'd do if the absolutely had to from a legal standpoint (if their license to use the Ilford name couldn't be continued). The video that has been linked is fairly good at summarising the available facts, and a couple of weeks ago they seemed to point to two possibilities.....a rebrand from Ilford to Harman or a colour film. Because many people who have actually visited Harman's facilities felt that Harman being able to produce colour film was nigh on impossible, thoughts turned to a rebrand. But now it has been made explicitly clear this is a new product that they cannot sell under the Ilford banner.
I think @analogwisdom was referring to the "Ilfocolor" film which keeps getting thrown into this thread. Someone posted an image of the box saying they didn't know who made it.
I don't think the Inoviscoat/Wolfen comment was meant to refer to Harman Phoenix.
OP
OP
No problem at all! I was referring to the "Ilfocolor" film. It's not great.
From what I understand, that Adox Color Mission film was designed/coated by people who have since left InovisCoat and as our own Henning Serger put it, there has been a "brain drain" at InovisCoat. I think this is obvious with the decline in quality since that Color Mission film.
Everything (that's color) that is coated in that factory isn't consistent anyway. Even Polaroid varies greatly batch to batch, they have to tweak their chemistry "goop" based on the specific emulsion "lot" they're working with.
Yeah, I really think that if this is color film, the folks in Mobberley would never create this much hype for something made by Inovis.
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I can support this!
If the right people happened to step off the flight from Düsseldorf to Manchester...
And Ilford's packaging plant was Agfa's anyway...
OP
OP
Whoa, I don't know why I didn't consider that. This would make a lot of sense!
You may be right but there is a lot of speculation in this paragraph. Companies rebrand away from well-known marks all the time, if they conclude the rebranding will invigorate sales. Here in the US, for example, HBO abandoned its mark, which was synonymous with top-quality TV drama, to MAX. (Go figure.)
As for circulating products to influencers, it could simply be former Ilford films reboxed as Harman films, with some claims that the rebranded films are new and improved (in some secret sauce kind of way).
You are probably right but even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Perhaps the plot thickens.....because we know that in 2021 Harman were advertising for photo-chemists who would work for them producing photographic products in Britain and Germany. Maybe they obtained some of the brains drained from Inoviscoat. that would have helped them with teh knowledge side of things, as they were getting closer to making a saleable C41 film.
*If* Harman have also been able to upgrade their coating system to make sufficient coating layers for C41 film....it's not impossible. If this is something they've been secretly working on for a few years, perhaps an influx of expert chemists with some experience of colour work has enabled them to reach the finish line.
MattKing
Moderator
Eastman Kodak are looking for similar people - not least because they want and need both more staff and younger staff - many of the highly trained specialists are either retired or nearing retirement.
Staff renewal is of course a good thing - it implies stability and growth.
… and can lead to an increase of both technological and business innovation.
@ilfordphoto and @harmanphoto are probable the same person.
Following the story about Adox Color Mission and Helios one would think that those people ended up with Adox (they were pretty confident that they have everything to produce Color Mission II aka Helios, that it's just a matter of time).
It would be quite odd if they were not. Not the point I was trying to make, but I've now excepted the generally accepted "fact" that anything associated with "Ilford" can't touch anything related to colour...
I wonder if the asset that Adox has sitting in Marly Switzerland could factor in here? Adox doesn’t have the capital or resources to fully utilize the, former Cibachrome/Ilfochrome lab machine. Could it be Harman technology has purchased/leased this equipment??? This wouldn't need to be a collaboration.
Since Adox acquired the Marly plant are they coating anything??? For two companies to share an asset doesn’t necessarily indicate a joint venture. Could be Harman could produce color films for other people
Adox???
Since Adox acquired the Marly plant are they coating anything??? For two companies to share an asset doesn’t necessarily indicate a joint venture. Could be Harman could produce color films for other people
Adox???
The underpinning point of Delta's grain technology is to get a single (thin) emulsion layer to do what would previously have required 2-3 emulsions in 2 layers to achieve - which has obvious consequences for building (and troubleshooting) a C-41 material - and how many layers/ machine passes would be needed for a color material.
If there is indeed production equipment in Switzerland available for use, the idea of Harman using this is interesting. I would like to see Harman capable of making color film in England. But making it in Switzerland could be another rebirth for the phoenix.
I wonder why the launch is in California rather than in the UK - merely wondering, not thinking it shouldn't be.
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to launch a color film in a northern country in December. California will have much more color for photowalks and stuff at that time. Then again, I wouldn't want to launch a color film in the winter anywhere. I'd do it in the spring, or right before fall.
Assuming that it is a colour film, you're right. But what if they're launching a solar powered light meter with a special night photography attachment? And I'm with you about the odd seasonal timing.
That would be wonderful. Since the San Clemente event includes a pub crawl I’m also anticipating swag, like Harman pint glasses.
MattKing
Moderator
The USA is currently Harman's largest market for its products, including Ilford black and white products, and its relationship with the division of Roberts Cameras that has exclusive distribution rights for Harman products in the USA is probably Harman's most important business relationship.
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