So here we are, 17th June 2025, more than 18 months later and NO IMPROVED PRODUCT. 12 "short" months to make Phoenix ... 18 months later, nothing new.
I suspect that the original Phoenix project was at least 5 years in the pipeline, not 12 "short" months, and that Harman's excellent technologists are embarrassed by the antics of their marketing department. I hope we see an improved product by 2030, or soon after.
I beat them to it with my own version of Phoenix Red 120
Well this is a shocking level of negativity etc. Shame on you all. Shame!
Whatever brings in the £££. I will buy a roll for the colorful (colourful) box.
Takes some nerve to invest in analog (analogue) photography.
In 10 years will there be 1/3 , 1/2 the cameras that exist today??
Maybe start selling Harman Red Ale
It's the "modern way" to announce things, isn't it? It is likely to appeal to those whom Harman judge to be its main market
It was never intended for the average Photrio member. I suspect that those here who are not in favour of this kind of marketing will still buy the Redscale 120 if that is what they like or not buy it if they don't. Their choice will have nothing to do with their opinion on whether or not they applaud this method of announcement
pentaxuser
Well this is a shocking level of negativity etc. Shame on you all. Shame!
......
Just because a product is not to a person's liking, isn't what they wished for, doesn't make it a bad product. That negative opinion is just a drop in the ocean.
.............
The problem is not the product, the problem is Harman's marketing of it. I'd be embarrassed if I were one of their film technology team.
Why? In this instance, they announced on social media a week ago that they would be revealing a product. Is that even any great amount of marketing? You'll notice that announcements made on social media channels are targeted at people who "follow" them (implies those people are actually interested in them).
Who knows when it will appear. Harman made no promises as to timelines. I am a little surprised we've not seen a significant improvement yet but not especially disappointed. These things take time. Colour film is an incredibly complex product to R&D and to manufacture. The fact that the world experts in B&W film cannot, even with increased resources, come up with a "normal" C41 film quickly tells us something about how difficult that task is. But I have every confidence that they will improve Phoenix. I'm just not sticking to any self imposed timeline. If I had guessed 18 months ago, I'd have expected something "upgraded" would have appeared by now. But it hasn't and that doesn't mean Harman have failed.
not that i dig redscale films, but the amount of rage on harman's announcements is always fun to watch
You're right of course, the boundaries between fact and fiction have almost disappeared. It doesn't matter for Phoenix ... but back in the real world I think it's essential to distinguish between the two.
The problem is not the product, the problem is Harman's marketing of it. I'd be embarrassed if I were one of their film technology team.
There is something we are over-looking. If and when Ilford/Harman introduce a newer colour film, it will be difficult to sell the remaining Phoenix film stocks.
Red Scale film 35mm & 120 is a way to help shift what's left of the Phoenix film
I had a chat with some of the folks at the Ilford booth at BILD and the gist of what they told me is that whenever they launch another color film, Phoenix is going to depend on if people are still buying it. Unsurprisingly, if people keep buying it, it sounds like they're happy to keep making it.
Wait... I'm getting mixed messages here... Are you saying that if we keep buying Phoenix, Harman will just stick to Phoenix and not make anything new? That can't be right.
I don't think that's an entirely accurate reading - there is clearly a limit to how big the market is for any one experimental film (and how many are buying to support Harman vs buying it on its own merits), but there are lots of other experimentalist niches e.g. redscale etc - and if Harman can pick up enough from those too, then it'll definitely speed along the work on Phoenix 2.0. There's clearly a lot going on in the background too (i.e. the work from which Kentmere 200 has spun out from).
Not what I meant. Whether they continue costing phoenix in addition to a future color film stock will depend on continuing demand for Phoenix
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