How do we know whether there's any disruption to the Gelatin ? You or I haven't looked through a microscope. It's 35 yeras since I last used an electron microscope
Ian;
I know both of them personally. I have not spoken with them in years though.
However, if you could scan in or quote the article I would appreciate seeing it. I never heard of it before and I have read most of their recent published articles.
PE
That's all right. I found it..... Jan-Feb 2008, P 10
Quoting.....
"Detailed rationals of clummping describe how individual emulsion grains swim together in the emulsion to form clumps (doesn't happen), others claim the origin in development by products.......... (doesn't happen).... Still others confuse extreme graininess with reticulation (an altogether different "dry lake bed" effect resulting from temperature shock between solutions that shatters the gel matrix)."
He dispels all of these in his article and ends by saying..
"The grain in Spain (and everywhere else) falls mainly like rain."
His explanation is that we see clumps due to random distributions of grains that differ from film to film, pretty much as I stated in the OP.
Sorry guys, no such thing as grain clumping and reticulation is just relegated to the sidelines as a totally different effect. Thanks Ian for an excellent reference. Dick BTW, published a huge series on grain and sharpness in articles from 2002 - 2008 and which I spent about 15 minutes finding. His comments fully support what I have been saying!
PE
Who said gelatin separates from the base ? Only you above.
Ian
Mr Susse didn't write the article.
Ian
Ray;
See the quote from Dave and Sylvia above. I think that you have missed a few points.
They dismiss micro reticulation which then relegates reticulation to a macro event. It therefore has a minor influence on grain.
PE
Ray;
Dave and Sylvia...
dismiss micro reticulation which then relegates reticulation to a macro event.
It therefore has a minor influence on grain.
PE
Ray;
Please read the OP. Ross proves that grain clumping cannot take place. D and Z confirm this, but I knew it as well!
PE
Mark;
Ian didn't recognize the quote I made above from the article he professed to know was in support of his position. Maybe it was because the article in question refuted his position. In any case, D and Z refer to reticulation as the dry lake bed effect and totally refrain from any mention of micro reticulation. And, grain clumping does not happen!
PE
So you envision the metal firmly attached to the base, like a boulder on the beach, impervious to the ebb and flow of the gelatin?
That certainly is possible, as I have seen some partial evidence like that, but on glass. I am not confident enough to say there is no movement of the metal when the gelatin shrinks around it, but I certainly can see it happening (or not happening, as the case may be).
In fact, the fogginess and "graininess" could be entirely from the micro reticulated gelatin and its effect on light.
Please keep in mind, while I don't accept "grain growth" or "clumping" as necessarily occurring, I do have samples of what I call "micro reticulation" - the term I give it for lack of a better one. Normal reticulation or not, there is something going on that differs from the pronounced ridges and valleys typical of reticulation patterns we are all familiar with.
... this dog fight... They're having too much fun. The rest of us, maybe not so much.
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