Gerbershagen The new Head of Kodak Alaris says he wants input.

[Hatchetman]

He was brutally honest, but is anybody really surprised?

Not surprised, but disappointed it seems they are following the same sales/marketing plan as before.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

He must plan to work from their strengths and not their weaknesses. At this point the E6 marketplace is not a strength. My best guess is that if any color films survive in the long run, they will be color negative films.

 

[benjiboy]

Sent a note requesting Ektachrome be brought back. Got this response.

Dear Mr. xxxx,

The decision to discontinue the manufacture and sale of our Kodak Professional EKTACHROME films was a very difficult one. It was based on a steady decrease in demand and customer usage, coupled with a highly complex product formulation and manufacturing process. That conclusion was reached more that two (2) years ago. At this point in time, it would not be practical to try to bring these products back to market.

Although I know this is not the answer you were looking for, I appreciate your input.

Sincerely,

Thomas J. Mooney | Product Line Business Mgr - Film Capture |
Personalized Imaging | 2400 Mount Read Blvd | Rochester, NY 14615 |

They just omited to write, now go forth and multiply, or something to that effect.

 

[Dr Croubie]

He must plan to work from their strengths and not their weaknesses. At this point the E6 marketplace is not a strength. My best guess is that if any color films survive in the long run, they will be color negative films.

Unfortunately I think you're right, not that it matters to me as much because I don't shoot much Kodak at all.

I like Tri-X (actually, I like the 'old' grainy Tri-X more than the 'new' cleaner one), but their TMax is easiled replaced with Delta, and their Ektachrome I never used much, was always an RVP fan.
Portra I don't much use, although I'm starting to get into it now that I can enlarge RA4. Porta 4x5 I might be upset if it goes as there's no other C41 4x5 anymore as far as I know, besides Ektar.

Actually, given my luck, and if for no other reason than because I'm just starting to get into it, what they'll probably kill next is Ektar, just at the point where I decide I wanna buy more of it...

 

[ambaker]

KA's first loyalty is to the stakeholders. I know I want the companies in my 401K to make money. If the CEO chased off after some project that was not going to turn a profit, and burned a lot of dollars, I'm out.

Hopefully he will give his staff a chance to demonstrate there can be money in film. If they can't, or there isn't, then they have to move on.... Sad as that would be.

Meanwhile, if they could come up with a color film that would print like Kodachrome on Cibachrome, sign me up for a case of film.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[omaha]

I wonder when EK will manufacturer the last run of their current film offerings. Heck, I wonder if they aren't already done. From what I gather, they can make in a week what it would take a year or more to sell. For all I know, they have five years worth of Ektar in cold storage, and there never will be any new manufacturing.

I just remain of the opinion that there is a massive disconnect here when it comes to scale of operations and expectations. This guy talks about being a "billion dollar" company? Please. I think realistically the future of film manufacturing will involve companies who would consider $5 million in wholesale revenue to be a very good year. I think that is the scale film people need to be planning on. Of course, the fundamental question remains of whether it is possible to product product at prices the market is willing to pay at that scale. I have no idea.

But I am reasonably certain the new KA CEO has no interest in a $5 million line of business.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

But I am reasonably certain the new KA CEO has no interest in a $5 million line of business.

My original point, exactly...

Ken

 

[MattKing]

But I am reasonably certain the new KA CEO has no interest in a $5 million line of business.

I am not sure that is necessarily the case.

I am sure that there is value in the goodwill attached to Kodak film. If EK had done a better job leveraging that goodwill into other technologies, there might not have been a bankruptcy.

 

[RattyMouse]

There is such enormous angst over Kodak that it is really a very real detriment to this hobby. I get REALLY depressed by worrying over Kodak's future. This is amplified ENORMOUSLY by Kodak's near complete and total disconnect to film photographers. A little transparency would really go a long way.

There's just nothing to feel good about Kodak, other than the films, which already seem abandoned.

As Ken said, you can feel the passion at Ilford, just from Simon's posts here.

I really have enjoyed my return to film photography, except for the near constant Kodak death watch. It is a terrible part to this hobby. Couple that to Fujifilm's seemingly increasing exit from film manufacturing and again, one's salvation is left at Ilford's door.

Nothing will be better for film photographers than for the film industry finally size itself to the current reality. The sooner this is done the better. If Fujifilm and Kodak have to go, then fine, get it over with. Let Ilford, and perhaps that Italian company (can't remember how to spell their name), take over.

I really dont know how much more of this I can take.

 

[Dr Croubie]

The decision to discontinue the manufacture and sale of our Kodak Professional EKTACHROME films was a very difficult one... At this point in time, it would not be practical to try to bring these products back to market.

A little transparency would really go a long way.

Get it?

Yes, I'm that person who makes bad jokes at a funeral to lighten the mood (coz it sure feels like it, talking about Kodak sometimes)

 

[Nuff]

Why do you worry? What's the point of worrying? What good will it do? Nothing!

Just shoot film and enjoy. If it's not there, use some other film which it is there. It's really that simple. No need to get all fanboi about it and get panties in a twist. I will shoot what I like for how long it is there.
If it's not there, I will move on and use something else. I guess if you worry so much instead of taking photos and shooting film, there might be no film in the end?

There is such enormous angst over Kodak that it is really a very real detriment to this hobby. I get REALLY depressed by worrying over Kodak's future. This is amplified ENORMOUSLY by Kodak's near complete and total disconnect to film photographers. A little transparency would really go a long way.

There's just nothing to feel good about Kodak, other than the films, which already seem abandoned.

As Ken said, you can feel the passion at Ilford, just from Simon's posts here.

I really have enjoyed my return to film photography, except for the near constant Kodak death watch. It is a terrible part to this hobby. Couple that to Fujifilm's seemingly increasing exit from film manufacturing and again, one's salvation is left at Ilford's door.

Nothing will be better for film photographers than for the film industry finally size itself to the current reality. The sooner this is done the better. If Fujifilm and Kodak have to go, then fine, get it over with. Let Ilford, and perhaps that Italian company (can't remember how to spell their name), take over.

I really dont know how much more of this I can take.

 

[RattyMouse]

Why do you worry? What's the point of worrying? What good will it do? Nothing!

Just shoot film and enjoy. If it's not there, use some other film which it is there. It's really that simple. No need to get all fanboi about it and get panties in a twist. I will shoot what I like for how long it is there.
If it's not there, I will move on and use something else. I guess if you worry so much instead of taking photos and shooting film, there might be no film in the end?

I worry AND shoot photos. One can do both.

The Kodak and Fujifilm death watch reduces my ability to enjoy shooting film.

My post contains NOTHING fanboi. At all. So your imagination is providing part of which that you reply to. That part has nothing to do with me.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Why do you worry? What's the point of worrying? What good will it do? Nothing!

Worry is a natural extension of the more basic fear of the unknown that has been naturally selected into each and every one of us over the last five million years. And for very good reasons. It's a form of abstract thinking that allows for the identification and avoidance of future threats and dangers. As such, it is ultimately a mechanism to help insure survival of the species.

In this particular case, worry allows an individual to identify conditions and patterns today that may constitute a threat to the availability of certain photographic films in the future. Correct identification of such future dangers would allow for their avoidance by the mechanism of transitioning to substitute films before the current ones disappear.

Several years ago I looked at the situation and began worrying about the future availability of Kodak Plus-X film. At the time this had been my standard use film for 30 years. Worry helped identify both the danger, and the mitigating action. I switched to Ilford b&w films before that danger overtook me. And, of course, Plus-X is now extinct. Mission accomplished.

Those who worry are proactive, and very little sneaks up and bites them in the butt. Those who don't worry are reactive, and generally have butts covered with painful teeth marks. And since danger in life is ever present, I'll take the former approach over the latter any day. It makes sitting in chairs much easier.

There is only one mad individual I know of who lives life by the credo "What? Me worry?"



Ken

 

[omaha]

This popped up on my FB feed a while back...

 

[Prof_Pixel]

From an article in todays Rochester Democrat and Chronicle Kodak Alaris CEO: Lots of change, quickly (see article at http://www.democratandchronicle.com...kodak-alaris-ceo-lots-change-quickly/7465411/ )

---------------------------------

D&C: What about the camera film business? Are there growth opportunities there at all?

RG: We will continue the film business as long as there's a profitable market out there. Film is still in demand. We're happy to provide this ... as long as it makes sense for us. And at the moment it makes sense for us.

D&C: Given the trend lines you've undoubtedly been looking at, is this a business that has three years? Five years? Ten years? How long does this last?

RG: You never know. Maybe next year there's kind of a retro, how do you say ....

D&C: Like LPs?

RG: That's a good example. They're coming back right now.

 

[wblynch]

If it were to pull back its film offerings to only black and white then there is no purpose for Kodak (Alaris) film.

There are no black and white films from Kodak that can't be better supplied from many other, more dedicated, makers.

Color may soon be moot as well if Ferrania can get restarted. And there is still a spark of life left in Agfa color films.

I am now of the firm belief that the best thing for all of us is for Kodak (Alaris) to end the shell of a charade and bow out for good.

At least it gives the others an opportunity to fill the niche.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Maybe Mr. Ralf Gerbershagen should sign up and become a contributing member here, like Simon G.

 

[omaha]

I am now of the firm belief that the best thing for all of us is for Kodak (Alaris) to end the shell of a charade and bow out for good.

I was thinking something along the same lines.

My idea (and I don't believe there is even a ghost of a chance this happens) is that when the time comes that KA decides photographic film is no longer a viable business for them, they will, in an act of generosity to the industry, release all of their remaining film manufacturing IP to the public domain. Let other companies, perhaps new startups, pick up the mantle and run with it.

The market for photo film is not and will never be zero. I believe there is an opportunity for correctly scaled companies to tool up and serve it, but that would be made infinitely more difficult if they had to re-learn everything EK learned over 100+ years, carefully work their way around patent issues, etc.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

This popped up on my FB feed a while back...

View attachment 85864

The chart is a formalization of the worry process. The first decision diamond is the identification of possible future danger step. And the second diamond is the possible mitigation of future danger step.

The two questions posed are never even asked by those reactive individuals who chronically can't sit in chairs...



Ken

 

[StoneNYC]

If it were to pull back its film offerings to only black and white then there is no purpose for Kodak (Alaris) film.

There are no black and white films from Kodak that can't be better supplied from many other, more dedicated, makers.

Color may soon be moot as well if Ferrania can get restarted. And there is still a spark of life left in Agfa color films.

I am now of the firm belief that the best thing for all of us is for Kodak (Alaris) to end the shell of a charade and bow out for good.

At least it gives the others an opportunity to fill the niche.

Ouch, that last part won't go down well here...

I agree with it a bit, I think they should bow out of the B&W industry and focus on color... No competition.

I think Fuji should give Acros100 to Ilford, and Velvia50/100 to Kodak.

Provia100f/Provia400X (as much as I hate to say it) can be covered by the Portra line which is more popular (as far as the majority market that would choose to use either film).

And kodak should stop Ektar100 in favor of Velvia50/100.

Lastly, kodak should produce some "retro" lines for the likes of Lomography, specifically Ektar25 and old Ektachrome64T

This would be Kodak's future lineup if I were in charge.

Velvia50
Velvia100
Ektachrome64T
Portra 160
Portra 400
Portra 800
Ektar25

This would give kodak....

-3 portrait films in all important speeds

-2 Landscape films in 2 speeds but more importantly 2 reciprocity types (poor reciprocity is part of why V50 has such insane long exposure colors, more than V100 and V100 would be easy to shoot without having to think about the reciprocity issues for those that don't like/know how to deal with that stuff like many Lomo and new-to-film folks).

-2 Retro line films for he Lomo folks which would give a vivid, but also earth-tone looking option, and a blue toned option/tungsten light option.

Of course, no one will listen to me...

 

[Hatchetman]

I wonder what kind of input Gerbershagen was expecting to receive?

Please continue your long-standing policy of discontinuing film products?

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I wonder what kind of input Gerbershagen was expecting to receive?

Please continue your long-standing policy of discontinuing film products?

Bulls-eye observation.

Ken

 

[StoneNYC]

I wonder what kind of input Gerbershagen was expecting to receive?

Please continue your long-standing policy of discontinuing film products?

Probably was expecting to receive questions related to the profitable product lines they have... Which doesn't include film...

And I mean the EXTREMELY profitable stuff....

If Kodak were IBM, they would have dropped film back in 2002... We are lucky Kodak is as bad at profiting as it is...

 

[wblynch]

And what value is gathering input from the user community if they won't be acting upon it?

I am not worried but I am doing something about it. All my black and white film purchases no longer go to new Kodak films, but to other makers.

Half of my color film purchases go to Kodak and half to Fujifilm. When Ferrania comes available I expect 80% or more of my color will come from them.

I adore Kodak films, especially their color Gold products. But they really aren't any better than Fujifilm, and Fujifilm still offers E-6.

So it's up to Kodak (Alaris) if they want to remain in the film business and if they are going to take any of the input, they claim they want, and do anything concrete with it. Or is it only more phony lip service?

 

[wblynch]

I wonder what kind of input Gerbershagen was expecting to receive?

Please continue your long-standing policy of discontinuing film products?

Best comment of the thread!