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Gainers Original MC-sodium carbonate developer concentrated in glycerine

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gealto2

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My present project is using Gainers "Original" MC developer that was published in 1994. I've been experimenting with this and liking it a lot in a concentrated water solution, and am planning on concentrating it into a supersaturated solution of ascorbic and and metol in glycerol for extending shelf life and convenience, kind of like so many variations of PC-glycol, PC-TEA, and various others. In researching this, I've read lots of threads here on Photrio so have recently joined here.

The original Gainer formula, which he calls "original" in the first colum of his table 1 has variations. One is for metol, the other for phenidone. The phenidone branch has been broadly expanded by many variation, largely due to its lower cost and solubility in propylene and ethylene glycol. The metol branch has been largely dropped like a lead weight except for a few staining developers that so many seem to love so much. From my reading, metol is hard to dissolve in propylene glycol without using a water paste and small volume of TEA.

Gainers Original MC developer. 2g ascorbic acid + 0.2g metol + 6g sodium carbonate monohydrate in a quart of water. I like this developer because it's very simple with 3 components, extremely cheap to make, and works very well. It's a strong and fast developer that works as fast as d76 stock, and is able to push process at least 2 stops from my experience. I'm not a push processor, but discovered this by accident the first time I tested it. It's also a useful paper developer when mixed at double strength. I do not make paper prints often, but process ortho litho film to high gamma in my negative enlargement process. It gives what I would call moderate acutance (I use 35mm Kentmere 100) with fine grain. The results look similar to me to using Ryuji Suzuki's DS-1 developer diluted 1:2, or his DS-2 1:1.5. These are both MC developers from the past mimicking D76 and Ilfosol-S respectively. They are both weak developers compared with Gainers Original, and use lots more chemistry.

There have been so many discussions here between Pat Gainer and others about this and that relating to developers and polyols like propylene glycol, glycerine, and triethanolamine. Gainers tells stories about using glycerine when he's out of glycol. I found a US patent US 6020367A owned by Avon Products entitled "Supersaturated Ascorbic Acid Solutions" where dissolving certain chemicals well above their STP solubilities in heated solutions of polyols gives stable supersaturated solutions when cooled way down. According to this patent, glycerine is the best polyol for this, and able to dissolve as much ascorbic acid as 25% of the weight of the polyol. Metol is normally soluble in glycerine, so will not be a problem here like it is in glycol or triethanolamine.

My plan is to heat 80 ml glycerol in the microwave very carefully while monitoring temperature to about 200 deg. F. or more if needed, dissolve 10g ascorbic acid, and then 1g metol and cool down to ambient with a saran wrap cover on top, then top off to 100 ml, then bottle. This should give the Gainer Standard MC developer on dilution of 1:50 into a solution of 6g sodium carbonate monohydrate per quart of water. The 100 ml concentrate should give 5 quarts of working solution. Metol gives better quality images than phenidone in my opinion. I also have about half and pound of it and don't want to order any phenidone until I have no choice. I would call this MC-glycerol and it could be used with any accelerant just like PC-glycol.

Comments and suggestions are very welcome.

Attached is a phone scan of one of my test negatives using Gainers Original on 35mm Kentmere 100 at ei100 for 9 min. at 72 deg. F. I should have used temperature correction giving about 7 minutes, but was very unsure of this developer, so wanted to error on the side of overdevelopment. The negative is overdeveloped about a stop in my opinion.
 

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Alan Johnson

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Interesting experiment. Gainer did not seem to investigate the use of metol ascorbic acid TEA developer either for some reason.
The Gainer Method: To achieve solubility, a slurry of metol, a small amount of water, and TEA is mixed first. The TEA acts as a base to neutralize the sulfuric acid component of the metol sulfate, converting it into a form (likely p-methylaminophenol base) that is highly soluble in the organic solvent propylene glycol
 
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gealto2

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Interesting experiment. Gainer did not seem to investigate the use of metol ascorbic acid TEA developer either for some reason.
The Gainer Method: To achieve solubility, a slurry of metol, a small amount of water, and TEA is mixed first. The TEA acts as a base to neutralize the sulfuric acid component of the metol sulfate, converting it into a form (likely p-methylaminophenol base) that is highly soluble in the organic solvent propylene glycol
Thanks Alan. Later Gainer used a method using glycerine with metol and ascorbic acid at high temperatures, but different concentration than me, mixing a portion of that with propylene glycol/catechin(sp?). He called that MC-glycerol and suggested using that alone. This was an effort to improve the reliability of pyrocat-MC. I just came across that today.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I used Patrick's developers on and off through the 90's, up until his passing. I quite liked his PC-TEA. He was a great contributor here.
 
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gealto2

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I've read through at least 50 of his postings here researching this developer. I really enjoy the way he taught by trying to make people think instead of giving them detailed answers. He was a stalwart home brewer who preferred using common ingredients to reagent grade. He constantly beat the no sodium sulfite drum, which I find very humorous. He enjoyed telling stories about how he did something and his thought processes in doing so. He was a great teacher, engineer, and scientist.
 

koraks

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with fine grain
This would greatly surprise me. I did quite some testing back when I had an interest in Gainer's vitamin C developers and was searching for something that gave fine grain and optimal speed on higher-speed films like Foma 400. I used the phenidone version, but there's no reason to expect the metol version is somehow superior (the opposite, I'd expect). Turns out that the Gainer soup performed very clearly the worst in all regards.
If you want something you can fairly easily make yourself, gives full emulsion speed and fine grain, try one of the DIY Xtol clones.
 

relistan

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If you want something you can fairly easily make yourself, gives full emulsion speed and fine grain, try one of the DIY Xtol clones.

I think you'll find that my PC-512 Borax does that, and it's directly in this line of Gainer-derived developers. I also did not get fine grain and/or box speed from any of Gainer's developers, but I think PC-512 Borax is a pretty good balance of full box speed, no fogging, and fine-ish grain.
 
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gealto2

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I think you'll find that my PC-512 Borax does that, and it's directly in this line of Gainer-derived developers. I also did not get fine grain and/or box speed from any of Gainer's developers, but I think PC-512 Borax is a pretty good balance of full box speed, no fogging, and fine-ish grain.
Thanks for that information. I'm very aware of your developer. It uses phenidone not metol, so is not what I am working on now. I don't care about film speed and don't want finer grain than I get now with Gainers Original with metol. I appologize to Patrick Gainer if that sounds commercial. I prefer the acutance of non solvent developers at higher ph. I would lean more towards PC- glycol to use different accelerators for different uses. I also am using Gainers Original for print paper and other uses as well. My criticism of it would be that it needs more acutance and therefore grain. I like seeing a little grain in 35mm 11x14 prints. It says "I'm not digital" to the world. And also, "look how sharp I am". Metol gives better acutance than phenidone, and that's what wets my whistle.
 

koraks

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relistan

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I agree but it maybe the OP's interest is more in conducting an experiment with glycerol. I seem to recall that Gainer also found that borax would dissolve in glycerol but never pursued this to make a one shot concentrate.

Yes! Definitely that is an interesting avenue. I actually bought a big bottle of glycerol to pursue that direction but a couple of years later it it still sitting here. Would be interesting to learn more.
 

koraks

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Ah I see, no I meant as a film developer.
Rodinal works as a print developer in a way, but the dilution and tray life are uneconomical. Think 1+10 for a development time of several minutes, so ideally even stronger than that. I don't recommend it.
 
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gealto2

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Good points!
Having said that...

They're really not the same, although there's something of a relationship.
Going by what you describe, my first thought would be...rodinal.

Often, photography people confuse microcontrast with grain. My point was PC-512 Borax is in the wrong direction for me from Gainers original. It uses more developer and lower alkalinity to get finer grain, which I don't want, since Gainers original with metol if fine grained enough. Rodinal is not a home brew, nor do I want to home brew clones of it. My interest is home brew concentrated shelf stable MC developers. I like the idea of using polyols to make concentrated developers, but am not interested in phenidone at this time and see no need to incorporate accelerants in the concentrate since they are shelf stable in water and easily mixed as needed.

I have recently experimented with Ryuji Suzukis DS-1, an MC d76 clone, and his DS-2, an MC Ilfosol-S clone. Also been using E72 metol version for print developer. Not happy with any of these for various reasons. Gainers original with metol is very close to DS-2 in acutance and tonality. Gainers is simpler and concentrateable in polyols. I don't mind fine grain, but don't seek it as an end of its own. Ascorbic acid makes metol developers more fine grained, which also dilutes the acutance a bit I believe. To some degree it acts like sodium sulfite but without any physical development. Metol has more acutance than phenidone.
 
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gealto2

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My present project is using Gainers "Original" MC developer that was published in 1994.

I just received the glycerine and measurement syringes I ordered for this project. The glycerine is much less viscous than I remembered, not having used glycerine for a long time. This is good. I was thinking that if too thick, I could mix the metol in say 20 ml glycerine and the ascorbic acid in 80 ml propylene glycol, then mix the two together for lower viscosity. Waiting for the beakers I ordered to begin. Snowed last night, so goofing off while procrastinating the dreaded snow shoveling to come.
 
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