Forte Polywarmtone

K-G · May 27, 2014

Great news and a great work by Mirko and his team ! I look forward to the day when I can have my pre-ordered papers delivered.

Karl-Gustaf

TheToadMen · May 27, 2014

I wonder what the lith possibilities will be??

Wayne · May 31, 2014

"On the big coater rehearsed hands will plug the pipes."

This sounds dangerous. Better be careful with your fingers.

Wayne · Dec 9, 2014

There has been a recent update http://www.polywarmtone.com/Blog/English.html

Wayne · Dec 9, 2014

I would hope for research purposes they have some prints made on fresh Polywarmtone back when it was still made, and the negatives they were printed from. If not, I'm sure we could help them get it. Although there would be some uncontrollable variables like enlarger and lens, it would probably be better than comparing new PW prints with prints made today on 7 year old paper.

frotog · Dec 11, 2014

Wayne said:
I would hope for research purposes they have some prints made on fresh Polywarmtone back when it was still made, and the negatives they were printed from. If not, I'm sure we could help them get it. Although there would be some uncontrollable variables like enlarger and lens, it would probably be better than comparing new PW prints with prints made today on 7 year old paper.

One would think so. However, unlike other b/w fb papers, Forte PWT had neither optical brighteners nor incorporated developers. I have a rather large stash of this paper and it prints today the same as it did ten years ago - same exposure times, same emergence time in the developer. There's no change in image tone either.

I can't think of any other paper currently available that does not have these "improvements". When they do, like the ilford FB papers, you'll be lucky to get more than a few years out of stash before it turns.

pentaxuser · Dec 11, 2014

Interesting point you make about the inverse correlation between longevity and the inclusion of optical brighteners and incorporated developers in such papers as Ilford FB.

Can you say what you believe to be the link between lack of longevity and incorporated developers and optical brighteners?

Perhaps Ilford might care to comment on its findings in these respects?

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw · Dec 12, 2014

I'm fairly sure Simon Galley has stated the ILFORD papers do not contain incorporated developers.

Tom

Wayne · Dec 12, 2014

That's odd because I seem to recall people complaining that PWT tone changed with age. Maybe it stabilized after X amount of time

Sirius Glass · Dec 12, 2014

I have never used it, but I would like to try it and if I like it I would add it to my stable.

frotog · Dec 14, 2014

pentaxuser said:
Interesting point you make about the inverse correlation between longevity and the inclusion of optical brighteners and incorporated developers in such papers as Ilford FB.

Can you say what you believe to be the link between lack of longevity and incorporated developers and optical brighteners?

Perhaps Ilford might care to comment on its findings in these respects?

pentaxuser

I have several stockpiles of PWT purchased at different times from before and after the discontinuance. I've never witnessed fogging with this paper due to age. Apparently Ilford denies using incorporated developers despite users' discovery to the contrary (revisit this thread... (there was a url link here which no longer exists)). As for OBA's, I have no conclusive evidence however there are ample reports online suggesting that they are present in Ilford papers (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/photocommunity/forums/theforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5420).

In any event, I know what I know, I see what I see and my old stash of Ilford mg warmtone was corked after a few years in cold storage while the PWT still prints the same with emergence times in the 35-40" range. I haven't noticed any drastic (or even subtle for that matter) change in print color either.

Clearly the inclusion of these extra chemicals in a paper's emulsion causes degradation. Not having a background in photo chemistry, I can't tell you why it happens.

Ian Grant · Dec 14, 2014

One comment - Polywarmtone like most other Warmtone papers gets slightly cooler with age. I still have a raesonable amount left from the last production run.

Ian

pentaxuser · Dec 14, 2014

Thanks for the reply, frotog.

pentaxuser

silvergrain · Dec 22, 2014

I still have a bunch of PW14. 8-9 years old. Can't get more than grade 3.5 but I've not noticed any change or color and for sure no veiling at all. Not pretty much the same with Agfa papers.

In comparison, Ilford WT has a steady trend to weaken quite quickly on the blue emulsion, 3 year-old paper can't achieve more than grade 3. I'm talking real grades, i.e RN 85.

So basically I concur with frotog's statements.

radekone · Jan 11, 2015

Hi. I'm preparing to get back to my darkroom after a wee while.
Do you think Forte Polywarmtone RC would be of any use after a few years kept in the cool storage? The last time I used it 1-2 years ago it was okay.
I've got lots of FPW-2 left (too much I think).

By the way, I managed to get it printed in sepia, but can't remember how I did it Is this possible it was Bromophen?

Roger Cole · Jan 11, 2015

You can certainly sepia tone it. (Caveat - I've never used it but other WT papers sepia tone nicely as do many neutral papers though the results are rather different. I routinely brown tone Ilford MGWT.) I don't know any paper that produces a real sepia look without additional toning.

TheToadMen · Jan 11, 2015

Roger Cole said:
You can certainly sepia tone it. (Caveat - I've never used it but other WT papers sepia tone nicely as do many neutral papers though the results are rather different. I routinely brown tone Ilford MGWT.) I don't know any paper that produces a real sepia look without additional toning.

Salted paper print process does.
This is one of my prints:

Salt printing is an old process technique from 1833, whereby paper is treated with a solution of salt and silver nitrate and then subjected to outdoor exposure (sunlight) or an indoor UV lamp. I used a lamp this time. I love this process for its simplicity and beauty of the prints.

Roger Cole · Jan 11, 2015

Well yes. I should have said - I am aware that some other process give such a result. I meant I didn't know of a regular developing out silver gelatin paper that did so in the usually available developers. I could always be wrong though, of course.

frotog · Jan 11, 2015

Roger Cole said:
I could always be wrong though, of course.

You usually are.

radekone · Jan 11, 2015

Well, the thing is that sepia appeared without any other treatment. And no, it's been fixed properly

Roger Cole · Jan 11, 2015

That's really cool, but I've never seen anything THAT warm without toning (other than some alternative processes like above.) If you figure it out let us know!

Wayne · Nov 20, 2015

It's been a year since the last blog entry. I'm starting to worry. Almost 7 years older since this journey began too.

Sirius Glass · Nov 20, 2015

Wayne said:
It's been a year since the last blog entry. I'm starting to worry. Almost 7 years older since this journey began too.

Hmmm ... I noticed that most of us are getting older. Is there anything we can do about that?

Vlad Soare · Nov 21, 2015

Yes, hang out with people who are older than we. That will make us feel young again.

ADOX Fotoimpex · Jan 8, 2016

We are progressing but this venture is a good example as to how complex it is to make a silver halide emulsion system.
Usually you can rely on a team of 25 people and even then it takes about 2 years to design a silver halide product and implement it into production. No one pays you these costs today since prices out on the street only reflect bare variable production costs on written off machines and buildings. On the other hand we did not have to start from scratch but we had to make many many changes with a lot of them upgrading the paper which is good.
Given the resources that we can rely on (means for which we can pay from alternative income streams) we are actually quite fast

In the last 12 months we finetuned the multigrade system and on a parallel got the coating machine up and running which is another essential tool if you want to manufacture a photographic product.

Hopefully things will go faster on the coming products. For sure they will if we are talking variants and derivates of PW.

The updated timeline is:

- Next trial coatings in February (coating machine)
- Finishing the multigrade hopefully in January
- Bringing PW to the machine March-July

So 2016 could be the year of Polywarmtone ;-)

Happy new year to everyone!

Mirko

Forte Polywarmtone

K-G

TheToadMen

Wayne

Wayne

Wayne

frotog

pentaxuser

Tom Kershaw

Wayne

Sirius Glass

frotog

Ian Grant

pentaxuser

silvergrain

radekone

Roger Cole

TheToadMen

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ADOX Fotoimpex

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