Forte Polywarmtone

Discussion in '[Partner] ADOX' started by ADOX Fotoimpex, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. K-G

    K-G Subscriber

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    Great news and a great work by Mirko and his team ! I look forward to the day when I can have my pre-ordered papers delivered.

    Karl-Gustaf
     
  2. TheToadMen

    TheToadMen Member

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    I wonder what the lith possibilities will be??
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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    "On the big coater rehearsed hands will plug the pipes."

    This sounds dangerous. Better be careful with your fingers. :smile:
     
  4. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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  5. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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    I would hope for research purposes they have some prints made on fresh Polywarmtone back when it was still made, and the negatives they were printed from. If not, I'm sure we could help them get it. Although there would be some uncontrollable variables like enlarger and lens, it would probably be better than comparing new PW prints with prints made today on 7 year old paper.
     
  6. frotog

    frotog Member

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    One would think so. However, unlike other b/w fb papers, Forte PWT had neither optical brighteners nor incorporated developers. I have a rather large stash of this paper and it prints today the same as it did ten years ago - same exposure times, same emergence time in the developer. There's no change in image tone either.

    I can't think of any other paper currently available that does not have these "improvements". When they do, like the ilford FB papers, you'll be lucky to get more than a few years out of stash before it turns.
     
  7. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Interesting point you make about the inverse correlation between longevity and the inclusion of optical brighteners and incorporated developers in such papers as Ilford FB.

    Can you say what you believe to be the link between lack of longevity and incorporated developers and optical brighteners?

    Perhaps Ilford might care to comment on its findings in these respects?

    pentaxuser
     
  8. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    I'm fairly sure Simon Galley has stated the ILFORD papers do not contain incorporated developers.

    Tom
     
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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    That's odd because I seem to recall people complaining that PWT tone changed with age. Maybe it stabilized after X amount of time
     
  10. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I have never used it, but I would like to try it and if I like it I would add it to my stable.
     
  11. frotog

    frotog Member

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    I have several stockpiles of PWT purchased at different times from before and after the discontinuance. I've never witnessed fogging with this paper due to age. Apparently Ilford denies using incorporated developers despite users' discovery to the contrary (revisit this thread... http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/70895-developer-incorporated-paper.html). As for OBA's, I have no conclusive evidence however there are ample reports online suggesting that they are present in Ilford papers (http://www.ilfordphoto.com/photocommunity/forums/theforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5420).

    In any event, I know what I know, I see what I see and my old stash of Ilford mg warmtone was corked after a few years in cold storage while the PWT still prints the same with emergence times in the 35-40" range. I haven't noticed any drastic (or even subtle for that matter) change in print color either.

    Clearly the inclusion of these extra chemicals in a paper's emulsion causes degradation. Not having a background in photo chemistry, I can't tell you why it happens.
     
  12. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    One comment - Polywarmtone like most other Warmtone papers gets slightly cooler with age. I still have a raesonable amount left from the last production run.

    Ian
     
  13. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Thanks for the reply, frotog.

    pentaxuser
     
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  15. silvergrain

    silvergrain Member

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    I still have a bunch of PW14. 8-9 years old. Can't get more than grade 3.5 but I've not noticed any change or color and for sure no veiling at all. Not pretty much the same with Agfa papers.

    In comparison, Ilford WT has a steady trend to weaken quite quickly on the blue emulsion, 3 year-old paper can't achieve more than grade 3. I'm talking real grades, i.e RN 85.

    So basically I concur with frotog's statements.
     
  16. radekone

    radekone Member

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    Hi. I'm preparing to get back to my darkroom after a wee while.
    Do you think Forte Polywarmtone RC would be of any use after a few years kept in the cool storage? The last time I used it 1-2 years ago it was okay.
    I've got lots of FPW-2 left (too much I think).

    By the way, I managed to get it printed in sepia, but can't remember how I did it :smile: Is this possible it was Bromophen?
     
  17. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    You can certainly sepia tone it. (Caveat - I've never used it but other WT papers sepia tone nicely as do many neutral papers though the results are rather different. I routinely brown tone Ilford MGWT.) I don't know any paper that produces a real sepia look without additional toning.
     
  18. TheToadMen

    TheToadMen Member

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    Salted paper print process does.
    This is one of my prints:

    [​IMG]

    Salt printing is an old process technique from 1833, whereby paper is treated with a solution of salt and silver nitrate and then subjected to outdoor exposure (sunlight) or an indoor UV lamp. I used a lamp this time. I love this process for its simplicity and beauty of the prints.
     

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  19. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    Well yes. I should have said - I am aware that some other process give such a result. I meant I didn't know of a regular developing out silver gelatin paper that did so in the usually available developers. I could always be wrong though, of course. :smile:
     
  20. frotog

    frotog Member

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    You usually are.:laugh:
     
  21. radekone

    radekone Member

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    Well, the thing is that sepia appeared without any other treatment. And no, it's been fixed properly :smile:

    coffeeshop-800.jpg
     
  22. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

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    That's really cool, but I've never seen anything THAT warm without toning (other than some alternative processes like above.) If you figure it out let us know!
     
  23. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

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    It's been a year since the last blog entry. I'm starting to worry. Almost 7 years older since this journey began too.
     
  24. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Hmmm ... I noticed that most of us are getting older. Is there anything we can do about that?
     
  25. Vlad Soare

    Vlad Soare Member

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    Yes, hang out with people who are older than we. That will make us feel young again. :D
     
  26. OP
    OP
    ADOX Fotoimpex

    ADOX Fotoimpex Partner Partner

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    We are progressing but this venture is a good example as to how complex it is to make a silver halide emulsion system.
    Usually you can rely on a team of 25 people and even then it takes about 2 years to design a silver halide product and implement it into production. No one pays you these costs today since prices out on the street only reflect bare variable production costs on written off machines and buildings. On the other hand we did not have to start from scratch but we had to make many many changes with a lot of them upgrading the paper which is good.
    Given the resources that we can rely on (means for which we can pay from alternative income streams) we are actually quite fast :smile:

    In the last 12 months we finetuned the multigrade system and on a parallel got the coating machine up and running which is another essential tool if you want to manufacture a photographic product.

    Hopefully things will go faster on the coming products. For sure they will if we are talking variants and derivates of PW.

    The updated timeline is:

    - Next trial coatings in February (coating machine)
    - Finishing the multigrade hopefully in January
    - Bringing PW to the machine March-July

    So 2016 could be the year of Polywarmtone ;-)

    Happy new year to everyone!

    Mirko
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2016
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