Fomapan/Arista.edu Ultra 100-120: Pattern of small scratches, looking for culprit!

[MartinP]

Thanks for the feedback Aurelien. I have been trying Fomapan 200 recently (without marks, so far) and am curious about the outcome of the study you/they are making.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

I wonder adding some hardener in your fix will help? Souping your film in warm chemicals or washing in warm water will make the emulsion prone to scratches.

 

[erikg]

I guess concern for the 200 can be taken off the table as it has been discontinued. I'm still interested in hearing what the cause is determined to be by the factory.

 

[sandermarijn]

I sent 6 of my scratched Foma 100-120 negatives to Silverprint (where I bought the film). Josie from Silverprint has read this entire thread (thanks!) and Shane has taken a look at my negatives. I phoned him afterwards. He believes that the problem comes into existence in-camera, which is the consensus in this thread as well I believe.

I have asked Shane to take my problem with Foma 100-120 (and those of the other 'complainers' in this thread) to Foma.

Ian Grant contacted Foma over a year ago and never got an answer, I wrote two detailed emails in mid-January (no answer yet), Aurelien seems to be in touch but doesn't get much out of them either (up till now at least). Then there is Robert Vonk relaying sample negatives and other info to Foma.

Something should tip the scale eventually for the Foma people, no? I know it takes them time to figure things out, but some public information in the meanwhile really doesn't hurt (them or us).

Many thanks to Silverprint for their excellent customer service!

 

[RobertV]

Well our whole package with films, testsamples, failures and letters has been delivered to Foma in Hradec Kralové on 25th February 2010.
It's OK that Silverprint picked up the problem too and can have a look to the problem.

I only had a confirmation from Foma that they will analyze the materials and test samples which they have received from different channels. I tested Fomapan 100 during a seminar in a Fuji GX690 without problems and in my Bessa III 667 also no marks to find. So maybe the problem is related to the backing paper in combination with more specific cameras.

I will keep you guys updated when there is more news.

Best regards,

Robert
(Dutch Foma distributor)

 

[Aurelien]

I sent 6 of my scratched Foma 100-120 negatives to Silverprint (where I bought the film). Josie from Silverprint has read this entire thread (thanks!) and Shane has taken a look at my negatives. I phoned him afterwards. He believes that the problem comes into existence in-camera, which is the consensus in this thread as well I believe.

I have asked Shane to take my problem with Foma 100-120 (and those of the other 'complainers' in this thread) to Foma.

I can't believe that the majority of cameras in the world would damage films. No, definitely, I can't!

We know that Foma emulsions are soft and fragile. But as I told the problem is also present on the superpan 200 and retro 400S that were converted in Foma. Unfortunately, I have some. Now it's converted in Fotokemika, and NO PROBLEM. So the problem comes from the conversion.

And as Robert said, it's most likely caused by the rough backing paper.
I sent negatives to Foma. They told me it was got in their plant. An important point: They SAW THE DEFECTS and they are now analysing the cause with microscope and other techniques. I allowed them to destroy the negatives if they need for experiments and determination of the cause of the problem.
But, as far as I know, this black and green backing paper is very poor quality, and I hope they will change.

Aurélien
(French Foma dealer)

 

[sandermarijn]

Well our whole package with films, testsamples, failures and letters has been delivered to Foma in Hradec Kralové on 25th February 2010.

Impatience is one of my bads.

Let's just see what we have in 6 months' time.

 

[sandermarijn]

"De enige beperking in je fotografie ben je zelf"

en Foma natuurlijk...

(beetje flauw maar ik kon het niet laten)

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I have seen exactly this type of problem on both Arista.EDU 100 & 200 films lately. The 200 film was processed in the same tank as a roll of 35mm Foma 400 which had no such anomalies.

I think the Foma factory has some real problems, and I hope they can solve it without taking too much of a financial hit. Until I see an improvement my dollars go elsewhere.

- Thomas

Exemple:

 

[Aurelien]

I completely agree with you. They HAVE TO fix it. But do not worry: they are aware of the problem first, and of this topic, too. If not, they would not have contacted me.
So you can be sure that Robert and I are very attentive of what is going to happen, and I hope, not in the next 6 months.

 

[ricksplace]

Just a short note to say thanks for all the info folks. I'm a fan of foma 100 in 120, I have some of the new stuff, and I haven't seen any scratches (yet?). Good to know Foma is dealing with the problem. Probably not something so easy to diagnose as a sticking gas pedal....

 

[mikebarger]

The longer it takes to figure out, the better chance it will all be sold before the announced fix.

Mike

 

[sandermarijn]

The longer it takes to figure out, the better chance it will all be sold before the announced fix. Mike

This is the type of comment that one gets when a business doesn't know how to/ doesn't want to communicate.

Why doesn't Foma have a voice on this forum? I know that Kodak and Fuji don't have either, but then their products don't have problems as frequently.

Take Ilford, they always speak up when something is on, even when that something is not seemingly a good thing for the company. Ilford does know how to communicate. So why not Foma? Lack of resources? Come on.

BTW, Mike may be right (evil grin).

 

[Aurelien]

I am sorry to say that in my opinion, their lack of communication is cultural.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I am sorry to say that in my opinion, their lack of communication is cultural.

Could you elaborate?

Tom

 

[Aurelien]

It means that except Ilford, all other manufacturers cultivate the art of secret...

 

[Tom Kershaw]

ILFORD Photo / Harman Technology Ltd is a private company unlike Eastman Kodak, which may very well influence the different communications style. Kodak seem to communicate through Scott Sheppard's programme 'Inside analog photo'.

Tom

 

[wogster]

ILFORD Photo / Harman Technology Ltd is a private company unlike Eastman Kodak, which may very well influence the different communications style. Kodak seem to communicate through Scott Sheppard's programme 'Inside analog photo'.

Tom

Kodak is also a private company, and I think so is Fuji. I think the difference there is that those companies are not dependant on their B&W products, some people would say their film products, so working closely with the community isn't their primary concern. In the case of a company like Foma, it may be partly a language barrier, in that they probably have a very limited English language staff, that are kept busy in other areas.

Ilford/Harman is dependant on their B&W products and do not have a language problem, so they have a representative here.

 

[Ian Grant]

Kodak isn't a Private company, it's floated on the stock market, anyone can buy shares, so it's a Public company and responsible to is shareholders/

Ian

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Kodak isn't a Private company, it's floated on the stock market, anyone can buy shares, so it's a Public company and responsible to is shareholders/

Well, all corporations, private and public, are
responsible to their shareholders. In a private
company, the shareholders are more likely to be
taking an active role in the management of the
company, so shareholder concerns tend to be
coincident with those of management.

 

[mikebarger]

It must be some QA department at FOMA. This thread is nearly 60 days old and no explanation. Worse, it's not the first thread of this type for FOMA.

I'd feel better about them if they just came out and said, at our price point these defects are going to happen and we are not going to invest in equipment or process upgrades to improve the quality.

Mike

 

[RobertV]

I just spoke to Foma in Hradec Kralové:

About the scratches in the emulsion: All specific parameters of the Fomapan 100 films are within all limits. The problem is only found back with some specific cameras. So there is no emulsion failure found.
They are looking further of the combination camera and paper/film.

About the production of the Fomapan Creative 200 film: So far a substitute has not been succesful. Foma is looking for alternatives and therefore maybe has to reformulate the film. The discontinued supply of basic material was very unpredictable so in that way Foma was forced to stop production without warning.
They are aware about the demand of Fomapan 200 but can not give any new production date now. They are very sorry about this unhappy situation.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I just spoke to Foma in Hradec Kralové:

About the scratches in the emulsion: All specific parameters of the Fomapan 100 films are within all limits. The problem is only found back with some specific cameras. So there is no emulsion failure found.
They are looking further of the combination camera and paper/film.

If this is the statement of FOMA Bohemia, then so be it.
We will have to make up a list of camera’s not suitable for Foma film.
My problem camera is a Hasselblad 500C/M with A 12 backs and the film was Fomapan 400/120, what is yours?

 

[RobertV]

From Sander I got film and negatives with small scatches:
Camera Hasselblad 500 CM (I suppose A12 back). Tested with Fomapan 100.

Aurelien had no problem with the Mamiya 7 II but he had with the RB.

I tested with my Mamiya 645 pro and the C.V. Bessa III 667, no scratches.
During a seminar used a Fuji GX 690, from customer, no problems.

So it IS camera related. But it doesn't mean there is somewhere a problem.

Yes I rephrase the statement of Foma Bohemia while they are looking very serious into this nasty problem.
Same about their 200 film. The intention is to continue this film.

 

[agfarapid]

So far I've used Foma/Arista in my C33, M645 and an RB--no problems, no scratches. About a year ago had some film curling problems. That seems to have stopped with the newer green & black backing. I have a roll in my Nettar & I'll see how that works.