First works on the coater have started

[markjwyatt]

Similar to the machine in Switzerland. There was an image posted on Fotointern: https://www.fotointern.ch/archiv/2018/01/21/fotochemie-in-marly-von-ilford-bis-adox/

On the top floor is the stiffing section and a short first drying zone, then the first turn and swinging roller will come. The second drying zone is upside down with air coming from below. Then we need the first suction turn. The next drying zone (air from above, rest zone) can be extended into the old building to double in length. The same for the following Zone(s).
On the ground floor there is the aclimatisation, wind and unwind. Basically a larger version of the swiss machine with the option to move the swiss machine as well.

The polywarmtone website still works (much to my surprise): http://polywarmtone.com/English/register.php

Is the Gießkopf the "coating head" (or die)? It looks like it is mounted right at the entrance to the ovens. Maybe you want to get water out asap to avoid layer mixing?

 

[markjwyatt]

Ilford engineering, probably built by Troller but at least maintained by them over the past decade. I would not be surprised if all of Troller at one point was a spin out, out of Ilford.
We have several dies for up to 8 layers but we will mount the small three layer cascade which can be seen in the video from Marly in the beginning. We won´t do curtain. Agfa flew at 120m/min. Therefore the angle of the Agfa die is steeper. However I know that this can run at 30 m/min as well. So maybe we are all set by simply fixing the die on the sliding chassis.
We expect more modifications to be necessary though. At least ofcourse the side plates to make up for the differenrt coating roller diameter and vakuum sealing.

So if you are not dropping a curtain, then you do not need to mount edge guides? This will simplify life if true.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Is the Gießkopf the "coating head" (or die)? It looks like it is mounted right at the entrance to the ovens. Maybe you want to get water out asap to avoid layer mixing?

This is the stiffing. Gelatin is cooled down first to gelate, then entering the dryers later. Yes Gießkopf = Cascade slide.
What did you coat?

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

So don´t expect a bargain price. Like mentioned above on those batches we will actaully loose money.

The last boxes of old PW I was offered would have been more expensive than new MGWT (I chose not to buy them).

Don’t make it too cheap, or a lot of stashes of lith-paper will loose it’s value just overnight.

 

[markjwyatt]

This is the stiffing. Gelatin is cooled down first to gelate, then entering the dryers later. Yes Gießkopf = Cascade slide.
What did you coat?

Emulsion, hot melt, and solvent adhesives, as well as silicon layers (release). Our main products were pressure sensitive adhesive laminate and tapes. Our main products were single or two-layer; though in research we played with some multi-layer concepts. My main participation was design of the coating dies (as well as managing fabrication, then installation, start-up, and maintenance). Though I spent a lot of time behind a computer in California, I also spent a lot of time in grinding shops and on factory floors all over the world.

 

[Nodda Duma]

That’s all great stuff.. thanks for answering.

 

[Nodda Duma]

The polywarmtone website still works (much to my surprise): http://polywarmtone.com/English/register.php

I committed to some paper via that form and it looks like it sent. Keep up the great work .. your endeavors are an inspiration for the people and companies who are supporting the post-digital analog market.

- Jason

 

[flavio81]

Looks like a sexy machine. The combination of Agfa + Ilford machinery plus modern knowledge (Adox 2018) sounds exciting!

 

[Lachlan Young]

Ilford engineering, probably built by Troller but at least maintained by them over the past decade. I would not be surprised if all of Troller at one point was a spin out, out of Ilford.
We have several dies for up to 8 layers but we will mount the small three layer cascade which can be seen in the video from Marly in the beginning. We won´t do curtain. Agfa flew at 120m/min. Therefore the angle of the Agfa die is steeper. However I know that this can run at 30 m/min as well. So maybe we are all set by simply fixing the die on the sliding chassis.
We expect more modifications to be necessary though. At least ofcourse the side plates to make up for the different coating roller diameter and vakuum sealing.

So, theoretically, it's got potential to coat colour materials too? Not that I'm expecting you to start coating C-41 films or RA-4 papers in the immediate term! I'd be intrigued to see a picture of the Agfa die & whether it looks like any of their patents...

Really looking forward to the return of Polywarmtone - if things are successful, Extra Hard Bromofort & (a long shot I know) Porturex Rapid would be nice things to have...

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

So, theoretically, it's got potential to coat colour materials too? Not that I'm expecting you to start coating C-41 films or RA-4 papers in the immediate term! I'd be intrigued to see a picture of the Agfa die & whether it looks like any of their patents...

Really looking forward to the return of Polywarmtone - if things are successful, Extra Hard Bromofort & (a long shot I know) Porturex Rapid would be nice things to have...

Anything you find in the patents we consider museum style. We have plenty of this equipment as well and we show it on factory tours. The Agfa coater is unique and you cannot find this in any publications. This was built post the patent times. The same for our Ilford coaters. After 1990 not many patents were drawn anymore because the companies realised that this was only helping the competitors. After a certain level of complexity you are beyond the scope of patent lawyers which means they can´t help you to defend a case and judges can´t rule anymore. There are probably less than 10 people today in the world who can set up a working color emulsion. This is all very specific. The problem in manufacturing a color product is not only the coating part.

Polywarmtone is still on it´s way.

 

[AgX]

There are probably less than 10 people today in the world who can set up a working color emulsion. This is all very specific.

This is what at least PE and me have been warning against for years.
That such specific knowledge is lost with the people.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

This is what at least PE and me have been warning against for years.
That such specific knowledge is lost with the people.

I am aware of this but my ressources are limited in the current market size, so I try to do as much as possible within the limitations. Every Dollar of revenue from Fotoimpex is spent on the ADOX projects since > 25 years.
But next to saving our "world" we also need to put out products. Sometimes I feel that we are actually spending to much on the salvation side and to little on keeping/bringing back products in/into the channel.

Mirko

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Looks like a sexy machine. The combination of Agfa + Ilford machinery plus modern knowledge (Adox 2018) sounds exciting!

Exactly. Everyone had some good ideas but also stuck to other things from the past. We try to bring all of the good ideas together to build a new, modern and efficient plant. We have Know How from Agfa, Ilford, Ferrania, Konica, Forte, Fotokemika and others. Now it all needs to be merged.

 

[railwayman3]

This is what at least PE and me have been warning against for years.
That such specific knowledge is lost with the people.

That's what's really worrying. It's happened before in photography (Lumiere alticolor ? ), and in many other fields.

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

That's what's really worrying. It's happened before in photography (Lumiere alticolor ? ), and in many other fields.

Yes and no. Kodak is still there so is Fuji. Anyone trying to do color next to them will fail in these days. Our projects do take color into account but we have to stay realistic.

 

[RattyMouse]

Is there some sort of road map for what type of film products ADOX intends to make once the factory is up and running?

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Is there some sort of road map for what type of film products ADOX intends to make once the factory is up and running?

We are up an running. Most of the works are optimizations and the implementation of necessary works on the pre-products.
Remember we started out as a photo dealer and went from the finished product on foreward into production.
So a lot of this is about replacing things which have recently (in the past 3-4 years) vanished.
In a percentage I´d say 80% of the efforts are to simply stabilize the current production and become more and more independant and 20% is about possible new products like Polywarmtone.

 

[railwayman3]

Yes and no. Kodak is still there so is Fuji. Anyone trying to do color next to them will fail in these days. Our projects do take color into account but we have to stay realistic.

Good to know (I wasn't being critical in my post ! ). It would be wonderful if you ever did color, but, in the meantime, keep up your great work with B&W.

 

[removedacct1]

We are up an running.
In a percentage I´d say 80% of the efforts are to simply stabilize the current production and become more and more independant and 20% is about possible new products like Polywarmtone.

Congratulations! I wish you the best of luck, and I hope you meet all of your goals.

 

[AgX]

Anyone trying to do color next to them will fail in these days. Our projects do take color into account but we have to stay realistic.

Well, don't let Nina get angry on Mirko!

 

[Mick Fagan]

AgX, I have no idea where you find gems like that, brilliant.

Nina Hagen, one lovely looking lady, I think she and Helena Bonham Carter from England have very similar looks; both are outrageous in how they do their work.

Mick.

 

[Toyo]

We are up an running. Most of the works are optimizations and the implementation of necessary works on the pre-products.
Remember we started out as a photo dealer and went from the finished product on foreward into production.
So a lot of this is about replacing things which have recently (in the past 3-4 years) vanished.
In a percentage I´d say 80% of the efforts are to simply stabilize the current production and become more and more independant and 20% is about possible new products like Polywarmtone.

Congratulations on reaching these goals. I, too, wish you every success
T

 

[Prest_400]

I find the progress very interesting, was browsing around the webshop and ended up finding that there was an update a couple weeks ago:
http://www.adox.de/Photo/chs-100-ii-trial-coating/

 

[Wayne]

Put some wheels on it and that would make a great Zamboni, and think of how quickly you could coat miles of film!

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

Put some wheels on it and that would make a great Zamboni, and think of how quickly you could coat miles of film!

Good idea. We simply need to find a large tunnel, close both ends to make it light tight and the part where the wheesl drive over the film will be sold to hipsters looking for a special look at double the price