First roll of Harman Phoenix photos up!

[Agulliver]

I did not say that. Randy pointed out the obvious, whereas this thread seems full of people unable to admit the truth, that Phoenix is a low-quality film with terrible colour H&D curves and other defects (e.g. halos). Yes, some people like those defects ... that's fine ... but they are defects nonetheless.

It would be great if the 120 version was a greatly improved iteration, but I'm not holding my breath on that.

Where has anyone failed to acknowledge that Phoenix is very far from a "normal" C41 film, and that it demonstrates a weird exposure and colour behaviour including halation. Nobody has said anything otherwise. Harman themselves acknowledge all of this, and furthermore don't try and sugar coat it as "special effects". Anyone choosing to read the info given by Harman at the launch will have gone in with open eyes.

The film itself actually appears high quality in terms of manufacture....though Harman warned of coating defects I don't think many of us who have tried Phoenix have detected any.

As I said a few weeks ago. I simply don't get the criticism. If Harman had come along and said this was something to compete with Kodak's consumer film, that it was going to be easy to scan, perfect results first time yadda yadda yadda then you'd have a point. Criticising Phoenix for not being Gold or Color Plus is a bit like criticising cat food for not being rabbit food.

 

[brbo]

I did not say that. Randy pointed out the obvious, whereas this thread seems full of people unable to admit the truth, that Phoenix is a low-quality film with terrible colour H&D curves and other defects (e.g. halos).

Name ten of those people.

 

[cerber0s]

I had a great time shooting Harman Phoenix, trying to find scenes that brought the best out of the film. It certainly doesn’t suck compared to what it’s advertised to be.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Here's the problem. The film sucks.

Um, no.
It's just another tool in the toolbox.
Some people use it's unusual qualities to their advantage, others don't.

 

[cerber0s]

Um, no.
It's just another tool in the toolbox.
Some people use it's unusual qualities to their advantage, others don't.

Those look great!

 

[blee1996]

Thanks @AnselMortensen and @cerber0s: these are nice examples of how to use the film for their intrinsic characteristics.

 

[Agulliver]

Sure, it's not a great all purpose film like Gold, Color Plus or Fujj C200.....but it's not advertised as one. Crucially to me, Harman aren't even saying "Wheeee look at this funky film we've specially concocted over three years to do special things".....they're saying it's an experimental film, the first step on a journey....and we can take that or leave it.....we can leave it on the shelf (and that's perfectly OK), or buy some and either try to use the oddities for artistic effect or find circumstances in which the film works.

I had fun with my two rolls. I am unsure I'll buy more but it did make me look at my photography in different ways because it doesn't work with my most common style of photography. Heck, I even managed to make half decent shots in a music club without a flash.

It is exactly what Harman say it is. It doesn't suck because it isn't claiming to be comparable to any established colour films. But it certainly isn't a film that every photographer will find a use for. Personally I don't like Portra 800 but I am never going to say it "sucks" and suggest that people don't buy it. It just doesn't work at all with the circumstances in which I shoot high speed colour film. That's fine, because there's Candido 800 which works for me.

Ultimately Harman do want to manufacture a "normal" C41 consumer film, and hopefully over the next few years they'll achieve that. Then, presumably, they'll advertise it as such.

 

[blee1996]

Ultimately Harman do want to manufacture a "normal" C41 consumer film, and hopefully over the next few years they'll achieve that. Then, presumably, they'll advertise it as such.

You got me thinking: maybe I should hoard some Phoenix 200 now. Because once Harman starts to produce "normal" C41 film in the future, this vintage single-malt Phoenix 200 will become collectibles.

 

[cerber0s]

You got me thinking: maybe I should hoard some Phoenix 200 now. Because once Harman starts to produce "normal" C41 film in the future, this vintage single-malt Phoenix 200 will become collectibles.

That’s financial wisdom right there

 

[Disconnekt]

Found these listings earlier today, looks like Harman Phoenix in 120 may be coming soon-ish

Forgot to add that in the 2nd website screenshot, there are some (small) sample photos on the website:

HARMAN Phoenix 200 | 120, (10pcs) | colour negative film (C-41)

Discounted set for dealers, photo clubs, enthusiasts and schools: 10 pcs of HARMAN PHOENIX 200 colour negative film rolls.

www.fomei.com

 

[pentaxuser]

Forgot to add that in the 2nd website screenshot, there are some (small) sample photos on the website:

HARMAN Phoenix 200 | 120, (10pcs) | colour negative film (C-41)

Discounted set for dealers, photo clubs, enthusiasts and schools: 10 pcs of HARMAN PHOENIX 200 colour negative film rolls.

www.fomei.com

So am I correct in assuming that the 120 film is the same as the current 35mm film? If so, I wonder what it says about Harman's progress with the second iteration of Phoenix

My thought is that it suggests that the second iteration may not be just round the corner in the sense that if it makes sense to have taken the time, energy and expense of making it in 120 then there has to be a period which is long enough to make it worth Harman's while to have produced it in 120 in the current version before there is any likelihood of the next version being available

pentaxuser

 

[Agulliver]

I don't think Harman or anyone "in the know" has said anything about whether the 120 Phoenix is an improved film over that which was released a few months ago.

 

[Don_ih]

I don't think Harman or anyone "in the know" has said anything about whether the 120 Phoenix is an improved film over that which was released a few months ago.

They haven't officially said it exists yet, have they? Isn't 120 normally on a different thickness base than 35mm? At the very least, it might mean they've done another coating - so mixed up a probably somewhat different batch of emulsion(s).

 

[MattKing]

At the very least, the fact that backing paper is used with 120 film changes how halation is dealt with.

 

[pentaxuser]

They haven't officially said it exists yet, have they? Isn't 120 normally on a different thickness base than 35mm? At the very least, it might mean they've done another coating - so mixed up a probably somewhat different batch of emulsion(s).

Well assuming it actually exists then I am surprised that it wasn't announced by Harman. Can I ask what a "different batch of emulsions" means or might mean in terms of improvement?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[BrianShaw]

Well assuming it actually exists then I am surprised that it wasn't announced by Harman. Can I ask what a "different batch of emulsions" means or might mean in terms of improvement?

Thanks

pentaxuser

That's a great question. But it might be better to ask Harman than to ask Photrio members.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Wasn't it a calendar month between Harman's last 'something is coming' and something actually coming? So maybe it'll be that long again before they own up to what's really going on.

 

[Disconnekt]

Wasn't it a calendar month between Harman's last 'something is coming' and something actually coming? So maybe it'll be that long again before they own up to what's really going on.

I think it was about about a month, I think the release of this bigger sizs maybe released a smidge sooner since they dont have to hype it up *too* much since its already out in 35mm.

As far as if it's a "newer" version of the emulsion or not, it's essentially a "wait & find out" until its "officially" announced/released to get more info.

 

[Agulliver]

Word on Instagram is they are going to officially announce this on September 6th, so Friday.

 

[Don_ih]

Can I ask what a "different batch of emulsions" means or might mean in terms of improvement?

It may not mean improvement at all.

 

[pentaxuser]

That's a great question. But it might be better to ask Harman than to ask Photrio members.

That might be true of many questions on Photrio More seriously it was simply that if Don has seen mentíon of different emulsions then he or others might be able to say what that might mean in terms of a difference or differences from the current 35mm emulsion

pentaxuser

 

[pentaxuser]

It may not mean improvement at all.

OK, Don I just wondered what it might mean

pentaxuser

 

[BrianShaw]

That might be true of many questions on Photrio More seriously it was simply that if Don has seen mentíon of different emulsions then he or others might be able to say what that might mean in terms of a difference or differences from the current 35mm emulsion

pentaxuser

It's always worth asking but at this time it seems, sadly, that all anyone really knows is that Harman is teasing on social media of a 120 color product release. Unless some beta tester is going to leak information, like eventually happened the last time they did a tease marketing scheme, we're all in the dark. And even after the release there will be darkness unless they also release a datasheet. Let's face it... we are in the dark about a lot of technical aspects of the previous product and little seems to have been done to resolve that except by user testing and reports.

 

[Don_ih]

I just wondered what it might mean

Let's put it this way: they don't have some new colour film brand name behind the "size matters" teaser. They have Phoenix. So, it's not their fully-matured colour film (if they ever reach that) - it's still quirky Phoenix. If they had 120 to roll out when they released 35mm, they probably would have. But they are releasing 120 quite a while after 35mm (assuming that's what they're doing), so it seems to me a different coating run would be required, which might mean a slightly different emulsion.
It's all speculation.

 

[Supercine]

As far as I know Harman had done 4 master roll coating runs of Phoenix as of March 2024 with one more planned with this iteration of emulsion. Perhaps the last (5th) was for 120 or part thereof?
That's a lot of rolls!