First darkroom print

[Luis Filipe]

I found some filters already suggested here and I was wondering how would they work with Ilford VC Ilford papers.

These are Varycon VC filters and they seem very well reviewed.

Does anyone had any experience with them on Ilford VC paper?

Ill have to cut them to 6x6cm to fit them in my enlarger drawer and they are less than half the price of Ilford VC filters. They just don't have half grades and just need to increase exposure with 4 and 5 grades.

Thank you.

 

[tezzasmall]

Hi Luis, I too bought one of these Zenith suitcase enlargers new and used it for a few years when first starting out, in the 1970's. The enlarger will remain perfectly stable, as long as it is placed on another surface that is also stable. My first darkroom was under the stairs and I placed the enlarger on a concrete floor and you can't get any more stable than that. Probably like me, you'll have to assemble and then dismantle the enlarger at the beginning / end of a session and put it back into the suitcase. Don't worry about this, as it becomes second nature very quickly and will take barely any time at all to do. Mine was totally manual focus and this caused no problems at all. I find sometimes when supposed adjustments are added, it just makes it harder to work something. So try using it in manual focus only.

I found some filters already suggested here and I was wondering how would they work with Ilford VC Ilford papers.

These are Varycon VC filters and they seem very well reviewed.

Does anyone had any experience with them on Ilford VC paper?

Ill have to cut them to 6x6cm to fit them in my enlarger drawer and they are less than half the price of Ilford VC filters. They just don't have half grades...

The only down side seems to be not having half grades, but might be another way to compensate that?

As for your filters, having checked out some information about your Varycon VC filters, it does say that they 'should' work okay with other manufacturers papers, but have been designed to work best with their own brand of paper. Since you now have them and have probably cut them to size, all I can recommend is that you try them.

For your and anyone else who needs new filters but think a brand new Ilford set is too expensive, first, I'd not recommend buying second hand ones like I have previously. You don't know how old they'll be or how they've been handled, and the set I bought had obviously aged to varying degrees, making most of the filters useless. But, I did get a set of filter holders out of the deal and then bought from Ilford directly (when they had an offer of free postage) a set of 'Educational Filters', which I cut down and put into the holders I now had. The filters looked so different to the second hand ones I bought! From Ilford they only cost around £10:00 UK sterling and the filters only came in FULL grades, so I only got 6 graded filters, but in all the years I have done printing, my mostly used two filters are grades 2 and grade 3, with 1/2 grades rarely used, so I'm sure that will not be a problem for you.

Let us all know how you get on.

Terry S

 

[Buzz-01]

First off, I have no experience with the suggested Varycon filter set. Also I can't make up whether you've just seen the filters for sale or whether you've already purchased them.
If already purchased, just give them a go!
If not: My suggestion is just start with what you find reasonable and affordable, whatever that may be. Experience will tell if it was the right call.
The Ilford filter set will currently cost you about GBP / US$ 33, which is a reasonable price for what you get with the full and half grades.
Personally I would go and buy either that set, or possibly the cheaper Foma filter set, which has all the full grades, but requires a little more work when switching grades.
I would stick with either of these, because they are both intended for use with currently available VC papers.

There's a lot to learn already when starting out in the darkroom so you want to introduce as few unpredictable variables as possible.
To me that means fresh paper, fresh developer for every session, and a decent set of filters. Later on, when you get some experience, you can start adjusting the variables one by one like re-using developer a few times or using older paper.
You'll learn soon enough. But when starting out with too many variables, you'll keep asking yourself why your prints look all muddy and why you can't reach full whites or blacks. And then either all the fun is lost, or you end up buying the better gear anyway.

I started messing around with blue and green filter gels that are intended for stage lighting (because I already had them lying around), and even though they work pretty well for split grade printing, I still ended up ordering a dedicated filter set because I wanted predictable behavior.
Like I said before, I currently use the Foma filters and they work perfectly fine, but I'll probably pick up the Ilford filters later on anyway, simply because they are much more convenient when switching grades.

 

[Luis Filipe]

There's a lot to learn already when starting out in the darkroom so you want to introduce as few unpredictable variables as possible.
To me that means fresh paper, fresh developer for every session, and a decent set of filters. Later on, when you get some experience, you can start adjusting the variables one by one like re-using developer a few times or using older paper.
You'll learn soon enough. But when starting out with too many variables, you'll keep asking yourself why your prints look all muddy and why you can't reach full whites or blacks. And then either all the fun is lost, or you end up buying the better gear anyway.

That´s exactly my intention, start with the basic, take small steps and learn from mistakes(hopefully not many).

Hi Luis, I too bought one of these Zenith suitcase enlargers new and used it for a few years when first starting out, in the 1970's. The enlarger will remain perfectly stable, as long as it is placed on another surface that is also stable. My first darkroom was under the stairs and I placed the enlarger on a concrete floor and you can't get any more stable than that. Probably like me, you'll have to assemble and then dismantle the enlarger at the beginning / end of a session and put it back into the suitcase. Don't worry about this, as it becomes second nature very quickly and will take barely any time at all to do. Mine was totally manual focus and this caused no problems at all. I find sometimes when supposed adjustments are added, it just makes it harder to work something. So try using it in manual focus only.

Im going to setup my darkroom in the toilet, so I have to dismantle not only the enlarger but the entire darkroom as well. And hope no one needs to go during those hours or maybe I'll just leave a bucket outside XD
Yes manual looks pretty better as I tested with a white bond sheet, and also does bigger prints.

I haven't brought the filters yet. I was just wondering how would they work with Ilford VC paper because they're much cheaper and I'm low budget, but really want to start this.

Thanks you all in general for the advices and recommendations.

And by the way, are all safelights safe for VC papers?

Thanks again.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

SAFELIGHT TEST FOR PAPER

When you are ready to start printing it would not hurt to do a safelight test with your paper. Put a sheet of paper in your easel. Cover it with a book or something large enough to cover it entirely. Then slide it back to expose one inch of paper along the short edge. Wait one minute then slide it another inch. Another inch after that and wait a minute longer. Do this for the entire sheet. Then process it. If you begin to see the sheet become darker than the white stock then determine in which minute this begins and you will know how long you can safely have your paper under the safelight without the risk of flashing the paper with your safelight. The darkest edge will have been exposed for ten minutes. The next inch will have been exposed for nine minutes and so on. If you can go five minutes you should be fine. But it never hurts to know just how much time you and your paper have just sitting beneath the safelight.

And you could even cut a small strip of paper to do this. Do not need to use a whole sheet.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Oh, and in regards to the filters, learn how to dodge and burn in the meantime. The filters make things easy. Dodging and burning last a lifetime. A good way to control contrast on your own.

 

[Luis Filipe]

SAFELIGHT TEST FOR PAPER

When you are ready to start printing it would not hurt to do a safelight test with your paper. Put a sheet of paper in your easel. Cover it with a book or something large enough to cover it entirely. Then slide it back to expose one inch of paper along the short edge. Wait one minute then slide it another inch. Another inch after that and wait a minute longer. Do this for the entire sheet. Then process it. If you begin to see the sheet become darker than the white stock then determine in which minute this begins and you will know how long you can safely have your paper under the safelight without the risk of flashing the paper with your safelight. The darkest edge will have been exposed for ten minutes. The next inch will have been exposed for nine minutes and so on. If you can go five minutes you should be fine. But it never hurts to know just how much time you and your paper have just sitting beneath the safelight.

And you could even cut a small strip of paper to do this. Do not need to use a whole sheet.

That's really valuable information. Thank you.

 

[MattKing]

Christopher is correct, but his suggested safelight test is a bit too simple. The test is much more meaningful if you first expose the paper to enough enlarger light to make it go a very light grey when it is developed. Then do the test that Christopher suggests.
That pre-fogging is important, because it allows you to test whether the safelight is changing your printed image, not just changing an unprinted sheet of paper.
Many people do the test with several coins - placing one coin on the paper after one minute, then the next coin on the paper after two minutes, then continuing to add coins after each of three, four, five, six and eight and ten minutes, before developing the paper.
Here is a link to the even more comprehensive Kodak Safelight test, which adds into the equation the effect of a post safelight exposure light fogging. Save that up until you are more experienced: https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/KODAK-A-Guide-to-Darkroom-Illumination-K-4.pdf

 

[Luis Filipe]

Christopher is correct, but his suggested safelight test is a bit too simple. The test is much more meaningful if you first expose the paper to enough enlarger light to make it go a very light grey when it is developed. Then do the test that Christopher suggests.
That pre-fogging is important, because it allows you to test whether the safelight is changing your printed image, not just changing an unprinted sheet of paper.
Many people do the test with several coins - placing one coin on the paper after one minute, then the next coin on the paper after two minutes, then continuing to add coins after each of three, four, five, six and eight and ten minutes, before developing the paper.
Here is a link to the even more comprehensive Kodak Safelight test, which adds into the equation the effect of a post safelight exposure light fogging. Save that up until you are more experienced: https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/KODAK-A-Guide-to-Darkroom-Illumination-K-4.pdf

Thanks again Matt.

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Been a while, Matt. Thank you.

 

[Luis Filipe]

I'm still getting my stuff. Already have the developer, safelight, paper and filters.

Regarding the developer (Ilford multigrade) do you recommend preparing a litre mixed at 1+9 and use always fresh for every single print or how is it better?
So let's say as an example that I do 3 prints including tests, should I use always fresh for every single piece of paper I put in the tray?
So if I need 400ml to cover the paper in the tray, 1lt of mixed dev would do 2 prints?

Also, how many sheets you normally use before you're finally happy with the print. There must be any way of saving paper, or you use a sheet for every adjustment you need in order to get the best contrast?

Thanks a lot again in advance. Just making silly questions to avoid committing silly mistakes.

 

[Buzz-01]

With Ilford Multigrade, you should be good with mixing that 400ml for an entire printing session of a couple of hours.
The developer exhausts partially by developing paper, and partially by oxidization. In my experience, oxidization happens faster than my paper throughput during a session.
What I mean is that you probably won't exhaust it by running paper through it during a session.
Only mix the amount you'll need for that session, and store it oxygen-free until you start using it (eg in a PET bottle and squeeze out all the air before closing the cap). Then just before you start developing, put it in the tray (and just leave it there for the rest of the session).
Make sure its temperature is around 20°C before you start working, I keep my darkroom at 20°C and that automatically ensures proper chemical temperature.

As for saving paper, cut up a piece of paper into smaller strips and use one strip at a time. Place it on a critical part of your image (with both shadows and highlights in it) and make a test strip to determine your exposure.
Don't forget to put the remaining paper back in its dark bag, to prevent exposing the full box when turning on the lights! ;-)
Once you think you're good to go, expose a full sheet of paper and see how that works out. From there, you can start making adjustments if needed and make another print.
As a beginner, I usually need one or two full sheets of paper in test strips and partial prints before I'm confident enough to make my final print. Sometimes a couple more, when dodging and burning is involved.

There are lots of youtube videos on how to start printing in the darkroom. Ilford has some on their channel, and I highly recommend the videos of "Shoot Film Like A Boss". Highly entertaining and lots of very useful information!

 

[Luis Filipe]

Thanks very much Buzz...how much dev you recognize to be enough for a 8x10 print in a proportional tray?

My question about the paper was because in the videos, tutorials, etc they always use a full sheet of paper. Could be useful for some images like landscapes where you have nornaly highlights at the top and shadows at the bottom, but I cached the idea.

 

[Buzz-01]

Haha I hear you, it's a matter of deep pockets when using full sheets for test strips!

Personally I start with a one-to-two-inch wide strip (I make it the longest strip I can cut from the paper, eg 10" long on an 8x10 paper) and test my exposure in increments on that.
Then I might to a partial print (eg 1/4 of a sheet, or smaller) with the times and grades determined on the test strip, to also be able to double-check my focus and exposure (or to test some dodging/burning).
I keep notes of what I do, and when I think I got it all dialed in then I make a final print.
Then I write down how I made my final print in my log book, so I can easily make a re-print later on.
I usually also keep the best partial print or sometimes just the test strip together with the entry in my log book.
Just start printing and you'll find your way soon enough!

I usually use 500ml for 8x10" (20x25cm) which is more than enough in my trays, which are 8x10" Paterson trays.
You'll want the paper to be fully submerged and have it stay fully submerged when rocking the trays.

 

[MattKing]

I too use partial sheets for my test strips.
If you look up the data sheet for your developer, it will indicate what the expected capacity of your developer is, expressed in terms of numbers of 8"x10" prints can be expected per litre of working solution. So look that up, keep track of how many prints you are developing, and expect to replace the developer when you approach the expected capacity.
Remember that one 8"x10" print is equivalent to four 4"x5" prints, when it comes to capacity calculations.
You can monitor capacity in another way as well. Pay attention to how long it takes for the dark parts of the image to emerge at the beginning of the development time. If it takes 8 seconds with fresh developer, as your developing session progresses, and the energy of the developer becomes partially spent, you may want to consider discarding nearly spent developer when the emergence of the image slows down to twice that - 16 seconds.

 

[Luis Filipe]

I too use partial sheets for my test strips.
If you look up the data sheet for your developer, it will indicate what the expected capacity of your developer is, expressed in terms of numbers of 8"x10" prints can be expected per litre of working solution. So look that up, keep track of how many prints you are developing, and expect to replace the developer when you approach the expected capacity.
Remember that one 8"x10" print is equivalent to four 4"x5" prints, when it comes to capacity calculations.
You can monitor capacity in another way as well. Pay attention to how long it takes for the dark parts of the image to emerge at the beginning of the development time. If it takes 8 seconds with fresh developer, as your developing session progresses, and the energy of the developer becomes partially spent, you may want to consider discarding nearly spent developer when the emergence of the image slows down to twice that - 16 seconds.

So apparently I am able to do 100 prints with 1+9 dilution. This according to Ilford...

 

[Luis Filipe]

Another question arises about the fixer. I know that for film processing I do a test to determine how long to apply the fixer, but in the case of the paper does it make any difference or should I extend the fixing time print to print?

Can't find any info about this specifically.

And also about the developer it says how many prints I'm able to do but if I do just a few and decid to store it, what difference it is gonna make for my next printing session?

 

[MattKing]

Another question arises about the fixer. I know that for film processing I do a test to determine how long to apply the fixer, but in the case of the paper does it make any difference or should I extend the fixing time print to print?

No. You fix to completion.
Follow the manufacturer's recommendation with respect to dilution, fixing time and capacity with respect to fixer.

And also about the developer it says how many prints I'm able to do but if I do just a few and decid to store it, what difference it is gonna make for my next printing session?

All print developers tend to lose activity over time when they are stored, although some print developers can be stored much longer without becoming unusable.
You may recall my earlier suggestion that you measure the emergence time with fresh developer. If you did that, you can use that information to check your developer after it has been stored for some time.
If the emergence time hasn't yet doubled after storage, you should be able to continue to use it for a significant number of prints - possibly up to the rated capacity.
As that emergence time gets a lot longer, you need to check to see if the prints aren't reaching a full black in the right parts - a clear indication that the developer is spent.

 

[Luis Filipe]

I forgot you mentioned that before. Ill be aware of it.

Things get a long time to arrive now. I can't wait to start.

 

[mnemosyne]

Work and THINK in stop (and half stop) values, I second. Maybe a bit harder in the beginning, makes life so much easier thereafter.

Test strips in fixed 5 seconds intervals will help you find the right base exposure. Test strips timed in full or half stops will help you find the base exposure AND at the same time teach you a lot about how your paper "works".

 

[Luis Filipe]

Work and THINK in stop (and half stop) values, I second. Maybe a bit harder in the beginning, makes life so much easier thereafter.

Test strips in fixed 5 seconds intervals will help you find the right base exposure. Test strips timed in full or half stops will help you find the base exposure AND at the same time teach you a lot about how your paper "works".

Thank you. I found this guides Matt posted some time ago in this forum. Seems a good starting point. Any other suggestions are very welcome.

 

[MattKing]

I have that chart on the wall behind my enlarger, although I've basically memorized it now.
For clarity, you use those numbers when you start with the paper totally uncovered, and then sequentially cover over more and more of it as time goes on.
That gives you tests that have different exposure on different segments of the image. There are some neat solutions that move the paper instead, giving you different exposures on the same segment of the image.

 

[Luis Filipe]

I have that chart on the wall behind my enlarger, although I've basically memorized it now.
For clarity, you use those numbers when you start with the paper totally uncovered, and then sequentially cover over more and more of it as time goes on.
That gives you tests that have different exposure on different segments of the image. There are some neat solutions that move the paper instead, giving you different exposures on the same segment of the image.

I should start with a 19 sec exposure from the right and then adding 13, 10, 6...so in the end I have 9 strips with exposures corresponding to the stops. Is this correct?

 

[MattKing]

Wherever you start, you have to go left to right for this to work.
So if you start at 16 seconds (the time on the top row), then the next steps (from the bottom row) are:

TOTAL TIME	22	32	45	64	90	128	180
STEP	6	10	13	19	26	38	52

 

[Luis Filipe]

Ok. Got that now. Thanks