Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

[TheToadMen]

For some reason there continues to be a general misunderstanding of this point.

I'm in at the $140 level. How much film I may receive as a one-time "reward" is irrelevant to me, although I will certainly be excited to play with it. Ultimately, however, when I clicked on Submit I knew full well that my $140 was at high risk. I clicked anyway.

Why?

Because I don't have a mothballed film factory at my disposal. I don't have a town full of ex-employees with the skill sets to run that factory. I don't have either the business or technical skills to do much with them even if I did. And sooner than later here I also won't have any remaining E-6 film at all. And I can't make it myself in a basement. Or a barn.

But others do have those things at their disposal. So I clicked. It's the ONLY thing I can personally do. Begging KA to place an E-6 order with EK is not an option. Nor is begging Fuji to stop discontinuing.

But handing our Italian friends $140 and asking them to do the best they can with it IS an option. No unrealistic starry-eyed expectations here. I will likely never see a reintroduction of commercial E-6 film again. Color film itself may well go entirely extinct. And my $140 with it.

But there is also a non-trivial chance they might be able to pull it off.

That is the nature of risk/reward. You puts yer money on da' table, and da' man spins da' wheel. Sometimes you win. Most times you don't. It's pretty simple, really.

Just don't put down more than you can afford to lose...

Ken

Hi Ken,
For that kind of attitude, I'd like to send you a selfmade postcard as an extra reward (if you PM me your address).
Bert from Holland

 

[pbromaghin]

Kodak's accounts show legacy sales declining (ie inkjet and film) are we really sure film is not in steep decline?

Well, the last time I looked, EK's statements showed that the rest (non-film) of their business was declining even faster than the film business. It's just a bad company all around.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Kodak's accounts show legacy sales declining (ie inkjet and film) are we really sure film is not in steep decline?

Kodak and Fuji are winnowing selection but I can still buy 120 plusx on Sundays, BW400CN is in pharmacy 100m away(110 yards), Fotokemia died, Ferranni stopped...

C41 labs disappearing...

Am I on planet B?

Planet X...

I'll try again. Kodak no longer speaks for the future of the photographic film industry. By their own strategic choice, they remain in the film business only as a still declining legacy from their past. Their new primary lines of business have nothing whatsoever to do with photographic film.

Looking only at Kodak's financial statements as a valid indicator of the current state of the photographic film industry is a mistake.

Ken

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Worldwide, while film sales might not be declining, E6 sure isn't the reason...

...are we really sure film is not in steep decline?...

I can't speak to anyone else's certitude, but my post did say might not be declining.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Hi Ken,
For that kind of attitude, I'd like to send you a selfmade postcard as an extra reward (if you PM me your address).
Bert from Holland

PM sent!

:w00t:

Ken

 

[analoguey]

So $35 for two rolls of film as part of this Kickstarter. Just how much per roll can they sell this and perhaps other films later? Better be much cheaper, like 60% or more cheaper I'd think. I question the business model that can work and make money.

35$ for two rolls, plus shipping from Italy (to wherever) and plus supporting this company to revive or at least do a market survey while buying the factory.

It beats any market survey hands down, and they *KNOW* that there are at least 4,000 committed film buyers - even if half continue to buy, they might get a right sized market for *them*.

And personally its great to know that there are that many who will support a new company plus the bonus of two or three or whatever it is, rolls. And the fact that they are being serious enough to put out steps in plans as well.

(I hope) They might well pull it off.

This is of course, the first batch, due in Apr 2015.

 

[analoguey]

Planet X...

I'll try again. Kodak no longer speaks for the future of the photographic film industry. By their own strategic choice, they remain in the film business only as a still declining legacy from their past. Their new primary lines of business have nothing whatsoever to do with photographic film.

Looking only at Kodak's financial statements as a valid indicator of the current state of the photographic film industry is a mistake.

Ken

Indeed!
Kodak is a shining example of what not to do for Ferrania.
Lomo, Ilford - possibly even Foma, are good examples of what to do!

 

[PKM-25]

Planet X...

I'll try again. Kodak no longer speaks for the future of the photographic film industry. By their own strategic choice, they remain in the film business only as a still declining legacy from their past. Their new primary lines of business have nothing whatsoever to do with photographic film.

Meanwhile, people like me are working away using Kodak products that are among the best films ever made, knowing full well that a final outlay of funds at any discontinuation of a product could be thousands.

All good, no issues, life goes on...

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Meanwhile, people like me are working away using Kodak products that are among the best films ever made, knowing full well that a final outlay of funds at any discontinuation of a product could be thousands.

All good, no issues, life goes on...

Not sayin' that you or anyone else should walk away from Kodak. Not even close. Just sayin' no one should have their heads buried in the sand regarding the larger trend lines. Sometimes one accidentally walks into a moving train. Ouch. But no reason justifies one doing it on purpose.

Also keep in mind that not everyone will be able to justify laying out thousands for a final lifetime supply. You might...

Ken

 

[railwayman3]

Meanwhile, people like me are working away using Kodak products that are among the best films ever made, knowing full well that a final outlay of funds at any discontinuation of a product could be thousands.

All good, no issues, life goes on...

I can't see the relevance of this to Ferrania starting (or not starting, if unsuccessful) the production of E6 film. Oddly enough, some people still like E6 transparencies, Kodak no longer supply their needs, and they haven't made, or couldn't afford, an outlay of thousands to stock their freezers. No Kodak E6 leaves one manufacturer, Fuji, and two films, one of which is the rather querky Velvia. Not the most secure situation, we only need another natural disaster in Japan, or a simple business decision by Fuji, and that's it. No one is forced to contribute to the Kickstart programme if they'd rather spend their money on Kodak products, but don't knock those of us who have put in our few $$$. The same few $$$ (or the $250,000 total) won't make or break what's left of Kodak.

 

[Lachlan Young]

This thread has achieved little other than to show that some people really do have an invented 'besieged victim' mentality... bit like the people who insisted that we should all drink the same bland, boring beer & like it, while complaining about pubs closing down and the rise of innovative microbreweries... I note that one of the Ferrania team is also a microbrewer...

 

[PKM-25]

I can't see the relevance of this to Ferrania starting (or not starting, if unsuccessful) the production of E6 film. Oddly enough, some people still like E6 transparencies, Kodak no longer supply their needs, and they haven't made, or couldn't afford, an outlay of thousands to stock their freezers. No Kodak E6 leaves one manufacturer, Fuji, and two films, one of which is the rather querky Velvia. Not the most secure situation, we only need another natural disaster in Japan, or a simple business decision by Fuji, and that's it. No one is forced to contribute to the Kickstart programme if they'd rather spend their money on Kodak products, but don't knock those of us who have put in our few $$$. The same few $$$ (or the $250,000 total) won't make or break what's left of Kodak.

I'm in no way knocking it, I think it is great and from a larger scope perspective, this is a testament to how niche film use has become and how it should approached as a long term product. I only said what I did because Kodak and their current color and black and white offerings have been mentioned a few times and regardless of who makes what, I defend those offernings because I find them to be exactly what I want to use.

But the biggie folks....no matter what the industry topic originated as, picking apart and dissecting Kodak and now Kodak Alaris seems to be a favorite pastime of a subset group of Apuggers and seems to be served up as Internet dessert after every industry meal, so to speak.

It's alright though eh, I spend *far* less time on this site because of that so you won't need to endure more than this post.

 

[Nzoomed]

Incorrect. You've left out 100TMX, 400TMY-2, 320TXP and 400TX, all black and white films.

Sorry, I was meaning to say that those were the only colour films that Kodak make, yes they do do B&W which is even more simple to produce.

Just musing on this, but I wonder if Kodachrome in master roll format stored better than E6 film would.

As many of the colour components were added to Kodachrome at the time of development, rather than at the time of film manufacture, it wouldn't surprise me.

Im not sure if it stores any different than Kodachrome or not.
AFAIK, all films should store almost indefinitely if kept frozen, Kodachrome is essentially a B&W film with 3 B&W layers each sensitized to C,M,Y, i know the dye couplers in colour films are more unstable than the simple chemistry in B&W films, but i think they still extremely stable when frozen.
Ive been shooting kodak elitechrome that is dated 2007 that was bought off a seller who claimed its been kept frozen, i certainly cant find any fault with it.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

But the biggie folks....no matter what the industry topic originated as, picking apart and dissecting Kodak and now Kodak Alaris seems to be a favorite pastime of a subset group of Apuggers and seems to be served up as Internet dessert after every industry meal, so to speak.

It's alright though eh, I spend *far* less time on this site because of that so you won't need to endure more than this post.

Thank you!!!!!!

 

[pentaxuser]

It's alright though eh, I spend *far* less time on this site because of that so you won't need to endure more than this post.

Have you analysed what percentage of APUG the hard-core Kodak or KA knockers represent? I'll bet it isn't large. I am sure their position is held sincerely but if all the other threads and APUG in general is to your liking then stick with us.

Accept that you might never change their stance. Granny Clampett in one episode of the Beverly Hillbillies was convinced that she could change the outcome of the Civil War on a Hollywood set and plied the actors portraying Ulysses S. Grant and Robert E Lee with her moonshine while they discussed the situation of the war. The next morning when they re-appeared on the set the one portraying Grant said he had had some real hangovers in the past but after Granny's moonshine even his hair hurt

This episode was about 1967 but the scene has stuck with me and still makes me smile. If you were a fan of the series I hope this helped make you smile as well.

We are all a long time dead

pentaxuser

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Granny Clampett in one episode of the Beverly Hillbillies was convinced that she could change the outcome of the Civil War...

:w00t::w00t::w00t:

I remember that!

Gosh we're old...



Ken

 

[ME Super]

But the biggie folks....no matter what the industry topic originated as, picking apart and dissecting Kodak and now Kodak Alaris seems to be a favorite pastime of a subset group of Apuggers and seems to be served up as Internet dessert after every industry meal, so to speak.

It's alright though eh, I spend *far* less time on this site because of that so you won't need to endure more than this post.

It's ok, Dan. For color negative, I find that Kodak's offerings are hard to beat. Even their consumer grade film is good. I've shot both Tri-X and HP5+, and find I like the HP5+ better, so that's what I shoot for B&W. My first love and primary class of films I use, however, is slide film. Kodak doesn't make it any more, who knows how much longer Fuji will, so I will "hoard" Fuji and buy Ferrania if the quality is good. Am I expecting Kodak/Fuji quality E-6 from Ferrania? Honestly, no, but if it's decent I intend to buy their products in addition to Kodak, Ilford, and Fuji. Oh, and the Rollei IR400S is good, and I've shot a little Fomapan here and there too.

 

[RattyMouse]

At least we tried? Tried what? This isn't a resurrection of some beloved old process. Kodak discontinued e-6 only 18 months or so ago. Mostly because few were buying any...

Kodak slide film is still available in about 3-4 stores here in Shanghai at the camera mall. Nearly 2 years after being shut down, still there is stock. Kodak slide film does not seem very popular at all.

 

[Nzoomed]

Kodak slide film is still available in about 3-4 stores here in Shanghai at the camera mall. Nearly 2 years after being shut down, still there is stock. Kodak slide film does not seem very popular at all.

Really?
It is china after all i guess, but its rare as hens teeth on Ebay now, crikey ill buy some from china if its cheap enough and well stored...

 

[Truzi]

Accept that you might never change their stance. Granny Clampett in one episode of the Beverly Hillbillies was convinced that she could change the outcome of the Civil War on a Hollywood set and plied the actors portraying Ulysses S. Grant and Robert E Lee with her moonshine while they discussed the situation of the war. The next morning when they re-appeared on the set the one portraying Grant said he had had some real hangovers in the past but after Granny's moonshine even his hair hurt

This episode was about 1967 but the scene has stuck with me and still makes me smile. If you were a fan of the series I hope this helped make you smile as well.

We are all a long time dead

pentaxuser

A cable station TVLand has been playing reruns of the Beverly Hillbillies daily.

 

[RattyMouse]

Really?
It is china after all i guess, but its rare as hens teeth on Ebay now, crikey ill buy some from china if its cheap enough and well stored...

I could buy cases of 120 Kodak E-6 film if i wanted to (i dont). From what I see the shops are storing it at room temp to let that help you decide how strong you want the stuff.

 

[Ten301]

I find it interesting that, not so very long ago, Ferrania films were rarely mentioned by anyone on photography forums; it was almost as if their very mention was taboo. The few times they were brought up, it was usually in a somewhat negative light, or generated negative comments concerning quality. How times have changed! I realize that Film Ferrania is not Ferrania Technologies of old, but they are resurrecting the old films from the old recipes. Now, with Kodak and Fuji discontinuing emulsions on what seems to be an almost daily basis, we are looking to Ferrania to be the savior of analog color film. Who would have predicted this just a few years ago? I honestly don't mean this to be a snarky comment, only that it really is amazing how quickly and unpredictably the dynamics in the film photography business have changed.

 

[Dr Croubie]

I find it interesting that, not so very long ago, Ferrania films were rarely mentioned by anyone on photography forums; it was almost as if their very mention was taboo. The few times they were brought up, it was usually in a somewhat negative light, or generated negative comments concerning quality. How times have changed! I realize that Film Ferrania is not Ferrania Technologies of old, but they are resurrecting the old films from the old recipes. Now, with Kodak and Fuji discontinuing emulsions on what seems to be an almost daily basis, we are looking to Ferrania to be the savior of analog color film. Who would have predicted this just a few years ago? I honestly don't mean this to be a snarky comment, only that it really is amazing how quickly and unpredictably the dynamics in the film photography business have changed.

In short:
any film > no film
(or, as Ken keeps saying, any e6 > kodak's currently offerings of E6)

 

[RattyMouse]

I find it interesting that, not so very long ago, Ferrania films were rarely mentioned by anyone on photography forums; it was almost as if their very mention was taboo. The few times they were brought up, it was usually in a somewhat negative light, or generated negative comments concerning quality. How times have changed! I realize that Film Ferrania is not Ferrania Technologies of old, but they are resurrecting the old films from the old recipes. Now, with Kodak and Fuji discontinuing emulsions on what seems to be an almost daily basis, we are looking to Ferrania to be the savior of analog color film. Who would have predicted this just a few years ago? I honestly don't mean this to be a snarky comment, only that it really is amazing how quickly and unpredictably the dynamics in the film photography business have changed.

Kodak offers NO reason to be hopeful for film's future.

Fuji offers less and less reasons to be hopeful for film's future.

Ferrania joins Ilford in offering hope.

 

[Nzoomed]

I find it interesting that, not so very long ago, Ferrania films were rarely mentioned by anyone on photography forums; it was almost as if their very mention was taboo. The few times they were brought up, it was usually in a somewhat negative light, or generated negative comments concerning quality. How times have changed! I realize that Film Ferrania is not Ferrania Technologies of old, but they are resurrecting the old films from the old recipes. Now, with Kodak and Fuji discontinuing emulsions on what seems to be an almost daily basis, we are looking to Ferrania to be the savior of analog color film. Who would have predicted this just a few years ago? I honestly don't mean this to be a snarky comment, only that it really is amazing how quickly and unpredictably the dynamics in the film photography business have changed.

Well i do agree with what you say, personally ive never shot it, as it was never a very common brand here in New Zealand (well from the late 90's onward anyway) but obviously Kodak and Fuji films were far superior, so Ferrania never got much attention.
In saying that, i dont think i can fault their recent colour films, Solaris wont obviously be as fine grained as Ektar or Portra, but its still pretty damn good, even Scotchchrome looks fairly reasonable, i wouldnt say its an overly grainy film at all.

I cant fault this photo whatsoever:

Scotch Chrome 100 by dropletcafe, on Flickr

In the end im not really after perfection with film, and this is the main reason ive decided to start shooting it again, i want to take photos that look like they have been taken back in the 50's, 60s or 70's, i like looking at vintage photos, not so much ones that have faded, but ones that have more neutral colours, and the grain of some films adds appeal too.

I think we can all almost without doubt agree that Kodak's future is very uncertain as far as film production goes, and i for one totally forgot that Ferrania ever existed, i must say i was surprised to learn that they had produced film as recent as 2010, and it is great to see a brand that i thought was history will be making an amazing comeback, just when we all thought that the future of E6 film was uncertain, we see Film Ferrania come to the surface.
I dont even care even if they did make crappy films, thats in the past, they have new blood and are dedicated to producing film for the very people that want it, and thats us!