Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

[RattyMouse]

I think we can all almost without doubt agree that Kodak's future is very uncertain as far as film production goes, and i for one totally forgot that Ferrania ever existed, i must say i was surprised to learn that they had produced film as recent as 2010, and it is great to see a brand that i thought was history will be making an amazing comeback, just when we all thought that the future of E6 film was uncertain, we see Film Ferrania come to the surface.
I dont even care even if they did make crappy films, thats in the past, they have new blood and are dedicated to producing film for the very people that want it, and thats us!

One wonders if that when Kodak eventually shuts down film production, and time passes, might the same thing happen in some similar fashion? Can a smaller group of people acquire the rights to Kodak's formulations and bring them back to life, in whatever way is possible in a smaller scale process.

 

[Xmas]

One wonders if that when Kodak eventually shuts down film production, and time passes, might the same thing happen in some similar fashion? Can a smaller group of people acquire the rights to Kodak's formulations and bring them back to life, in whatever way is possible in a smaller scale process.

No
There is no demand.
Every one else is using a camphone.
Ilford used to do colour, cine and 220, they are not going to restart?
PHOTOKEMIA stopped they could not sell enough.
I switched to E6, then c41, now mono.
No interest in going back to kodachrome.
I can still get plusx over a counter, no one is buying.
Wanna buy a cheap buggy whip?
Impossible have a market they don't need infrastructure beyond the legacy cameras, but they may not have sufficient volume even then. Cost per shot too high.

 

[Nzoomed]

One wonders if that when Kodak eventually shuts down film production, and time passes, might the same thing happen in some similar fashion? Can a smaller group of people acquire the rights to Kodak's formulations and bring them back to life, in whatever way is possible in a smaller scale process.

I would like to think so, but dont think it will happen.
If kodak wind up, i hope they sell off their business for someone to take over and run things. We just need the right people with the right ideas.

 

[JRoosa]

I personally think that film's decline will plateau like other similar niche markets.

Examples that come to mind include people who still hunt with black powder muzzle loading rifles. Companies still make those rifles plus black powder and percussion caps despite the technology being outdated since the close of the 1800s. Archery is still around centuries after the last archer went to war.

Sailboats, handmade furniture, bamboo fly rods, hand knit sweaters made from wool (seriously, it grew on a sheep in a field somewhere), fountain pens, swords, vacuum tubes for your guitar amp, and a saddle for your horse can all be bought new today despite being massively outsold by newer technologies.

The guy my kid's school hired with his horses to pull the wagon for their fall festival hay ride had a buggy whip he bought somewhere. They're still making those too.

Even within film, large format has been a sub-niche for decades and you can still buy newly manufactured cameras despite the minuscule market.

100 years from now some Luddite will still be shooting film just like us. Maybe he will even buy it from Ferrania.

I don't know. I'll be dead then, but maybe the few bucks I sent to Italy will have helped that guy make some art he enjoys.

-J.

 

[rbultman]

+1 JRoosa.

 

[kb3lms]

Thank you, JRoosa.

 

[PKM-25]

Kodak offers NO reason to be hopeful for film's future.

Fuji offers less and less reasons to be hopeful for film's future.

Ferrania joins Ilford in offering hope.

In regards to active posters...

dpreview offers NO reason to be hopeful for film's future.

APUG offers less and less reasons to be hopeful for film's future.

Large Format Forum joins Rangefinder Forum in offering hope.

 

[pdeeh]

APUG offers less and less reasons to be hopeful for film's future.

That's an interesting opinion.

Care to elaborate your rationale?

 

[PKM-25]

That's an interesting opinion.

Care to elaborate your rationale?

One bad apple spoils the bunch, 5-6 spoil the crop....

The increasingly negative aspects of industry topics on here are talked about on other forums now, kind of like the site's overall mission statement is a laughing stock on other forums.

It's like having a server in the buffet line constantly busting wind....folks lose their appetite and go elsewhere....

 

[railwayman3]

I'm in no way knocking it, I think it is great and from a larger scope perspective, this is a testament to how niche film use has become and how it should approached as a long term product. I only said what I did because Kodak and their current color and black and white offerings have been mentioned a few times and regardless of who makes what, I defend those offernings because I find them to be exactly what I want to use.

But the biggie folks....no matter what the industry topic originated as, picking apart and dissecting Kodak and now Kodak Alaris seems to be a favorite pastime of a subset group of Apuggers and seems to be served up as Internet dessert after every industry meal, so to speak.

It's alright though eh, I spend *far* less time on this site because of that so you won't need to endure more than this post.

I'm not knocking Kodak or Kodak products. I have a freezer full of E6 products, from Ektachrome 64 to the last films before they were discontinued; I also have a stock of Fuji Astia (not unlike Kodachrome in the results, IMHO) and Fuji Fortia (sic). I use Ilford B&W because I find them to be exactly what I want to use.

I have subscribed to the Kickstarter Ferrania programme, because I feel it is the only possible long-term source of slide film, no other reason. I certainly don't "need" the "reward" films for actual use. They'll probably decorate a shelf in my study for a while, finishing up in a cupboard and eventually be put in a skip by the kids when I'm no longer around (funny things that Dad used before they had proper digital cameras?). But I might just have helped in keeping E6 around for we analog users to enjoy. Buying Kodak film (and they are undoubtedly one of the finest makers of film in the world) won't keep E6 around.

 

[PKM-25]

Fair enough Michael, I did post an inquiry into doing ULF film in reversal process. In fact I have posted a couple of other things too but it tends to be pretty quiet where as these damn threads get all the attention amounting to about a 10:1 post ratio over other topics.

Railwayman3, I donated to the Ferrania cause because I want to support those who want the film. I don't believe in just taking care of my self and ignoring other's needs.

 

[pbromaghin]

In regards to active posters...

dpreview offers NO reason to be hopeful for film's future.

APUG offers less and less reasons to be hopeful for film's future.

Large Format Forum joins Rangefinder Forum in offering hope.

Dan, I disagree about APUG. Most people here are very hopeful and enthusiastic about the future of film. There are very few who think there is no hope. I think also that you may be reacting to people's frustration at the incompetence of EK upper management, and their excessive linking of the future of film to the future of Kodak film.

 

[pdeeh]

The increasingly negative aspects of industry topics on here are talked about on other forums now, kind of like the site's overall mission statement is a laughing stock on other forums.

...folks lose their appetite and go elsewhere....

True enough.

The various film-only groups (and the largest of them has a membership that dwarfs APUG's) on Flickr treat APUG as, at best, an irrelevance, or simply as a cave full of angry old men.

However I gave up up on RFF a good while ago. The preponderance of truly unpleasant thugs and trolls there saw to that.

 

[Nzoomed]

I personally think that film's decline will plateau like other similar niche markets.

Examples that come to mind include people who still hunt with black powder muzzle loading rifles. Companies still make those rifles plus black powder and percussion caps despite the technology being outdated since the close of the 1800s. Archery is still around centuries after the last archer went to war.

Sailboats, handmade furniture, bamboo fly rods, hand knit sweaters made from wool (seriously, it grew on a sheep in a field somewhere), fountain pens, swords, vacuum tubes for your guitar amp, and a saddle for your horse can all be bought new today despite being massively outsold by newer technologies.

The guy my kid's school hired with his horses to pull the wagon for their fall festival hay ride had a buggy whip he bought somewhere. They're still making those too.

Even within film, large format has been a sub-niche for decades and you can still buy newly manufactured cameras despite the minuscule market.

100 years from now some Luddite will still be shooting film just like us. Maybe he will even buy it from Ferrania.

I don't know. I'll be dead then, but maybe the few bucks I sent to Italy will have helped that guy make some art he enjoys.

-J.

Yes i was going to mention vacuum tubes, I myself build guitar amps, and there is a far bigger market for vacuum tubes today than there was 20 years ago. Sadly, the big names such as Mullard and Telefunken stopped production before they realised there was a niche market for them, same for film, we may not realise it now, but people will miss it, and then it will gain a big following. And just like valves, we will no longer have the big brands left, but the Russian valves kept it alive and then the chinese started production from scratch.
If it happened with valve audio, it will happen with film, i can guarantee it. We may end up with new Chinese films on the market, who knows? I dont know if i would want to shoot Chinese films, but if the quality of them was good, what is there to stop you?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Out of about 70,000 members the same people are posting on this thread. If this is the interest level of the Ferrania project, I fear that things are pretty bad off. Of course they raised their $ goal and this is good, but what about APUG? So little interest? Lets use APUG as a trial business model in which about 25/70000 is the customer base.

Not very good is it?

PE

 

[georg16nik]

Out of about 70,000 members the same people are posting on this thread. If this is the interest level of the Ferrania project, I fear that things are pretty bad off. Of course they raised their $ goal and this is good, but what about APUG? So little interest? Lets use APUG as a trial business model in which about 25/70000 is the customer base.

Not very good is it?

PE

Out of about 70,000, ~ 67,999 by default sing in the church of Kodak / Ilford / Fuji.
999 are aged between 84 and 124, the rest are blind... and there are 25 poets, completely missing the narrative part of poetry.

Its just Internet, capital I.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Out of about 70,000 members the same people are posting on this thread. If this is the interest level of the Ferrania project, I fear that things are pretty bad off. Of course they raised their $ goal and this is good, but what about APUG? So little interest? Lets use APUG as a trial business model in which about 25/70000 is the customer base.

Not very good is it?

PE

+1

 

[RattyMouse]

Yes i was going to mention vacuum tubes, I myself build guitar amps, and there is a far bigger market for vacuum tubes today than there was 20 years ago. Sadly, the big names such as Mullard and Telefunken stopped production before they realised there was a niche market for them, same for film, we may not realise it now, but people will miss it, and then it will gain a big following. And just like valves, we will no longer have the big brands left, but the Russian valves kept it alive and then the chinese started production from scratch.
If it happened with valve audio, it will happen with film, i can guarantee it. We may end up with new Chinese films on the market, who knows? I dont know if i would want to shoot Chinese films, but if the quality of them was good, what is there to stop you?

Western Electric reformed to re-issue the 300B single ended triode for a short time. That took a herculean effort. Hopefully Ferrania will last longer.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

One bad apple spoils the bunch, 5-6 spoil the crop....

The increasingly negative aspects of industry topics on here are talked about on other forums now, kind of like the site's overall mission statement is a laughing stock on other forums.

It's like having a server in the buffet line constantly busting wind....folks lose their appetite and go elsewhere....

Out of about 70,000 members the same people are posting on this thread. If this is the interest level of the Ferrania project, I fear that things are pretty bad off. Of course they raised their $ goal and this is good, but what about APUG? So little interest? Lets use APUG as a trial business model in which about 25/70000 is the customer base.

Not very good is it?

PE

While acknowledging that the risk to success and the probability of failure is still high, I personally haven't felt this optimistic for the long-term future viability of color film in a looong time. Especially E-6.

And as far as the health of APUG is concerned, I'm definitely not. The site membership continues to grow under Sean's guidance. The use of the galleries has smoothed out nicely, as has the quality of discourse engaged in by those members.

It's also wonderful to see an initial peek through the door by the newest APUG member '(there was a url link here which no longer exists)'. How about that?

I think we're good...

 

[Dr Croubie]

Lets use APUG as a trial business model in which about 25/70000 is the customer base.

Actually, if we assume that 25/70000 are commenting on this thread, that's 69975/70000 that are potentially interested in Ferrania. The 25 of us here are just yammering on the same old arguments every 5 pages for the hell of it, FF will do fine without us.

It's also wonderful to see an initial peek through the door by the newest APUG member '(there was a url link here which no longer exists)'. How about that?

I think we're good...

Woo, as long as it's a real account, they can join the ranks of Simon from Ilford, Omer from Catlabs, and Mirko from Adox.
Much better than Shinji from Fuji and Barry from Kodak, they never even show up so I had to invent names for them...

 

[rbultman]

Poet

...and there are 25 poets, completely missing the narrative part of poetry.

I gave to the cause
of slide film resurrected,
perhaps a fogged dream.

The above gives proof.
A poet? Certainly not.
A dreamer? Always.

Ok, that's the best I got. Two Haiku's in one message. I probably haven't written a Haiku since the 4th grade.

 

[Nzoomed]

Out of about 70,000 members the same people are posting on this thread. If this is the interest level of the Ferrania project, I fear that things are pretty bad off. Of course they raised their $ goal and this is good, but what about APUG? So little interest? Lets use APUG as a trial business model in which about 25/70000 is the customer base.

Not very good is it?

PE

I doubt that many of the backers are necessarily from here on APUG.
Over 4000 people on kickstarter is alot of people for a kickstarter and that says alot.
They themselves are surprised at the amount of support they recieved.
I think there is alot of people in the professional industry who are backing this project, not to mention the lomography community and cine shooters, film makers etc.

 

[RattyMouse]

Woo, as long as it's a real account, they can join the ranks of Simon from Ilford, Omer from Catlabs, and Mirko from Adox.
Much better than Shinji from Fuji and Barry from Kodak, they never even show up so I had to invent names for them...

 

[Xmas]

I personally think that film's decline will plateau like other similar niche markets.

Examples that come to mind include people who still hunt with black powder muzzle loading rifles. Companies still make those rifles plus black powder and percussion caps despite the technology being outdated since the close of the 1800s. Archery is still around centuries after the last archer went to war.

Sailboats, handmade furniture, bamboo fly rods, hand knit sweaters made from wool (seriously, it grew on a sheep in a field somewhere), fountain pens, swords, vacuum tubes for your guitar amp, and a saddle for your horse can all be bought new today despite being massively outsold by newer technologies.

The guy my kid's school hired with his horses to pull the wagon for their fall festival hay ride had a buggy whip he bought somewhere. They're still making those too.

Even within film, large format has been a sub-niche for decades and you can still buy newly manufactured cameras despite the minuscule market.

100 years from now some Luddite will still be shooting film just like us. Maybe he will even buy it from Ferrania.

I don't know. I'll be dead then, but maybe the few bucks I sent to Italy will have helped that guy make some art he enjoys.

-J.

As well as knitting gloves and cardigans me mum operated a forge and gun drill from she was eleven - grand father had too much work. They made buggies or heavy carts but would repair anything.

Her younger brother a watchmaker.

You can make black powder weapons as a cottage industry.

Colour film more difficult.

Glass plates are difficult to get nowadays. Superseded by film?

Local barrow girl has a pro pack of Plusx 120 on display every weekend no sign of it running out.

 

[Francesco_from_Rome]

PE, of course the task is uphill and very steep. But your estimate is biased in this case. I didn't participate to this thread since I am not knowledgeable enough (I'm learning a lot here on apug).
But I funded film ferrania kickstart project and will for sure try their products, if (and it's a big if!) they manage to overcome all the obstacles they're facing.