Film from Italy -- Ferrania starting production 2014

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Nzoomed

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I've shot several rolls of it. It's fine. As far as I can tell it's Provia 100F. At least, I can't tell the difference. It's still cheaper, but not as much as it used to be.

Sweet, that seems to be what others agree too.
Fuji are the only people making film in Japan anyway, there is rumour that its factory second stock that doesnt meet Fuji's quality control, but thats only speculation. Id say its pretty safe to say its just pure provia 100F.

I dont think there is even a "consumer" version of it.
 

Roger Cole

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B&H has it but there are better prices complete with shipping on the 'bay. I got mine from Hong Kong last time, I believe, and it was still cheaper than getting it from New York. I think I paid less than $8 a roll but last time I looked it was a bit more now.
 

Xmas

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If that's Kodak's current link, their site is years out of date. The Annesley factory closed several years ago, and the only reminders now are two drainage lakes, known as the "Kodak Lakes", which have been converted into (very attractive) fishing venues:

http://www.nottinghamanglers.co.uk/kodak-lakes-annesley.html

I can remember, on any journey on the M1 motorway, you would almost always see Kodak trucks going north to Annesley with coated film from Harrow, or returning south with finished product. Annesley was an award-winning factory when it was first opened, and quite a major local employer.

Trucks and vans with the distinctive "Agfa" logo and livery were also a not-uncommon site on UK roads.

The page had a photo of the site from prehistory when line 4 was running, the addressee was planning to eye ball the site for big buildings.

But the staff for line 4 all gone.

Kodak has winnowed staff but kept too many fat cats.
 

Steve Roberts

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Hey, im wanting to shoot some new films since my stock is running low, Has anyone shot much AGFA precisa?
AFAIK, its rebranded Fuji Provia, since its much cheaper im tempted to shoot it.

Any feedback would be good.

I've shot several rolls of Precisa and am very happy with the results. Both bulk packs that I've bought have had relatively short expiry dates (pack I've recently bought has a date of July 2015) which perhaps suggests that the original material is a professional rather than a consumer product. Either way, I'm confident that it'll be fine for as long as I need it to be once stored alongside the sirloin steaks, cheese, Tribute Ale and piccalilli in my refrigerator!
Steve
 

Nzoomed

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Thats good to know about the Precisa film, i will probably get a brick of it.

On another note, we are almost there, only another $11K left to reach the goal!
 
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rwhb12

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Kodak Harrow

OK - I yesterday had communication with the Chief Engineer

Sadly we do not coat any film Products at the UK Harrow site and have not done so for over 20 years. We coat silver halide based paper products on certain coating machines.

As you appreciate the UK element of Kodak Limited has separated from Eastman Kodak and now trades from the Harrow site as Kodak Alaris.

Film Production is now entirely the domain of Eastman Kodak and is carried out at their plant in Rochester NY state.

Since the demise in silver halide photography the Harrow site has shrunk significantly and many of the buildings that use to hold coating machines have long since been demolished. We still have some old Bead coat hoppers on site superseded by the current C coat Hoppers which (as I am sure you appreciate) coat at faster speeds, wider widths and are less susceptible to certain coating quality issues.......ergo are more robust than the old Bead coaters.

PE - can you say more about Bead coaters?

Russ
 

RattyMouse

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OK - I yesterday had communication with the Chief Engineer

Sadly we do not coat any film Products at the UK Harrow site and have not done so for over 20 years. We coat silver halide based paper products on certain coating machines.

As you appreciate the UK element of Kodak Limited has separated from Eastman Kodak and now trades from the Harrow site as Kodak Alaris.

Film Production is now entirely the domain of Eastman Kodak and is carried out at their plant in Rochester NY state.

Since the demise in silver halide photography the Harrow site has shrunk significantly and many of the buildings that use to hold coating machines have long since been demolished. We still have some old Bead coat hoppers on site superseded by the current C coat Hoppers which (as I am sure you appreciate) coat at faster speeds, wider widths and are less susceptible to certain coating quality issues.......ergo are more robust than the old Bead coaters.

PE - can you say more about Bead coaters?

Russ

I always thought it was a pipe dream to think that Harrow could ever coat film again. This pretty much confirms that. Kodak Alaris bought nothing but the distribution rights to sell Kodak film. They do not own any of the manufacturing capabilities or intellectual property of Eastman's film business.
 

Lachlan Young

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OK - I yesterday had communication with the Chief Engineer

Sadly we do not coat any film Products at the UK Harrow site and have not done so for over 20 years. We coat silver halide based paper products on certain coating machines.

As you appreciate the UK element of Kodak Limited has separated from Eastman Kodak and now trades from the Harrow site as Kodak Alaris.

Film Production is now entirely the domain of Eastman Kodak and is carried out at their plant in Rochester NY state.

Since the demise in silver halide photography the Harrow site has shrunk significantly and many of the buildings that use to hold coating machines have long since been demolished. We still have some old Bead coat hoppers on site superseded by the current C coat Hoppers which (as I am sure you appreciate) coat at faster speeds, wider widths and are less susceptible to certain coating quality issues.......ergo are more robust than the old Bead coaters.

PE - can you say more about Bead coaters?

Russ

Taking a guess, the c-coat hoppers are curtain coating machines - the two images on the right hand side of this link may be what he was referring to: http://www.packaging-int.com/upload/image_files/suppliers/images/companies/2166/coating-methods-l.jpg

Given what PE has said up-thread, they could coat film, but I'd guess they'd be limited in terms of number of layers (5?) they could handle, and I'd imagine films would need significant re-formulation to run on them.

This may, of course, all be wrong.
 

Photo Engineer

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The diagram in post 1063 is correct, but at Rochester we never used the word bead while I was there. I guess it fell out of use.

All of these methods can coat film or paper but at different levels of quality and at different speeds.

PE
 
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Well that was almost too easy. Film Ferrania asked for a quarter of a million dollars to help restart manufacturing of a major film brand, and got it in what? 11 or 12 days? Just like that, from the same potential customers who would like to purchase their products.

Heck, that's faster than they would have been approved and funded for a commercial loan.

Ken
 

rbultman

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This would not have been possible even a few years ago. The kickstarter model allows the market to put their money where their collective mouth is. It's even better than a focus group because the participants put skin in the game. It can also serve as proof to a commercial lender that the market is real.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 

RattyMouse

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Well that was almost too easy. Film Ferrania asked for a quarter of a million dollars to help restart manufacturing of a major film brand, and got it in what? 11 or 12 days? Just like that, from the same potential customers who would like to purchase their products.

Heck, that's faster than they would have been approved and funded for a commercial loan.

Ken

Yep....it CAN be done. Contrary to the negativity one can find here about the future of film within the big boy's world (kodak and Fuji).

Forza Ferrania!
 

Xmas

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This would not have been possible even a few years ago. The kickstarter model allows the market to put their money where their collective mouth is. It's even better than a focus group because the participants put skin in the game. It can also serve as proof to a commercial lender that the market is real.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Commercial lenders would be put off by Kodaks sales figures in past and extrapolations, they would not believe their model (excel spreadsheet) could be wrong.

Subprime mortgages an example they were greedy...

Ferranni need to deliver before to many more of the E6 labs dissappear.

The labs are like commercial lenders...
 

Nzoomed

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Ferranni need to deliver before to many more of the E6 labs dissappear.
I also think this is one reason they are starting off with an E6 film, despite them saying it was their most recent film.
IIRC, solaris was the last "Ferrania" branded film to be sold, i think scotch chrome was discontinued in 2003.

The founders are big supporters of the motion picture industry and they have their own lab, which is also good.
 
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Don't any of you have the fear that with Ferrania getting into the market might be like an extra candidate in an election that splits the vote on one side and makes the other side win by default? Except here what happens is somehow many of us move money we would have spent for Ilford film and buy Ferrania because it's new and exciting. And this takes away just enough business from Ilford that it's gets into trouble, or God forbid, goes out of business? and in the end Ferrania, who's long term survival is still a huge uncertainty, doesn't survive itself? I mean are we this desperate for more film choices?
 
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Prof_Pixel

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Don't any of you have the fear that with Ferrania getting into the market might be like an extra candidate in an election that splits the vote on one side and makes the other side win by default? Except here what happens is somehow many of us move money we would have spent for Ilford film and buy Ferrania because it's new and exciting. And this takes away just enough business from Ilford that it's gets into trouble, or God forbid, goes out of business? and in the end Ferrania, who's long term survival is still a huge uncertainty, doesn't survive itself?

Very good point!
 
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No, not into the foreseeable future because Harman/Ilford are strictly black-and-white, and Film Ferrania will be strictly color.

I can see this concern, however, regarding Fujifilm and E-6 right away, and possibly EK/KA for C-41 down the road. Although in EK/KA's case it would give them cover to just drop out of film altogether. Which, if you recall, is exactly what Perez said he wanted all along. Hard to see them at this stage backtracking on that now-entrenched strategic direction.

I think what most are looking for (I know I am) is some sort of long-term assurances of availability. EK/KA refuses to give those. For five plus years now their party line has been "we might make it tomorrow, or we might not, you'll know when tomorrow arrives."

That wears on people (read: paying customers) big time. And I suspect that's a good part of the reason Ferrania was able to raise over a quarter million dollars in just a few days...

Ken
 
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Dr Croubie

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oh, never mind then. Too bad we weren't so interested earlier when sales could not support such products.

Isn't that a pretty well-known psychology cliche? We only realise how much we want it once it's gone. At least in this case E6 isn't quite yet gone, but:

a) I don't see Ferrania getting big enough to hurt Fuji's E6 offerings by stealing business, for now the size difference is too great. Fuji may kill E6 eventually, but if it's within 5 years it won't be because of Ferrania.

b) I don't see Ferrania killing Ilford either. Among us already-film-photographers, yes, there's only so much cash to go around, so those two brands can have a bit of a substitution-effect. But that's going to be small compared to the number of new-to-film shooters who will grow the profile of film overall, and heck, may even get into B+W after (re-)starting on Ferrania E6. So Ferrania may even do good things for Ilford.

c) If anything Ferrania may help kill Kodak. Not that Kodak needs any help in that department, they're doing just fine killing themselves, but Ferrania may be a few more nails in that coffin. Think about it: if you're a movie producer/director dedicated to film, you can have all of your eggs in the Kodak Vision basket, and that may be gone in a few short years (hell, if it's obvious to us, of course people like Tarantino would be all too aware of what's going on). Or, you could try out a few rolls of this new Italian stuff you may never have even heard of, you may even like it. They certainly seem more dedicated to cine film than Kodak, why not give them a chance? If it has the look you want, why not buy a few batches of it, shoot it alongside Vision, maybe certain scenes look better with one or the other, or maybe one movie with Kodak one movie with Ferrania. Eventually Kodak will kill Vision, that's when not if, and if Ferrania have their ECN up and running by then, they'll transition perfectly into picking up the pieces. The risks are that they peak ECN production too soon and bleed money while everyone is still on Kodak, or too late and everyone gives up and goes digital because there's nothing else out there.

d) of course c) only applies to 35mm ECN, which this kickstarter isn't. But by getting those three big machines in, they're gearing up for c) eventually. 8mm and 16mm E6 will kill nothing, as there's nothing to kill. But it's the gateway drug to maybe get a few more interested that might lead to 35mm ECN, or might lead to shooting E6 stills. The 35mm and 120 E6 stills that are the rewards for this cash are just the best/easiest they could offer in return with the time and budget they had; if this were happening in a year they might have had more time to offer C41 or ECN or whatever as a reward instead.
 

Prof_Pixel

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I think it's an "and/or' issue. Is the potential pot of money for conventional photographic film fixed (with a tradeoff between B&W and color) or is it expandable with B&W adding color as an extra?

My best guess is the market pot is fixed so that after the excitement settles, money spent on Ferrania conventional still products will be taken away from other manufacturers. I think their best 'new' market will be 8mm and 16mm cine products.
 
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