Film Ferrania p30

relistan · Jan 29, 2021

railwayman3 said:
I followed those instructions exactly. I've long since written-off the Kickstarter, but, as a successful businessman myself, I would have hoped that any genuine firm might have the courtesy to deal properly with its supporters and prospective customers ? Since you bring it up, I've never had (or even been offered) any film from them, free, early, bought at full price. or otherwise ?

Maybe you missed the update then. A few years ago, when they did the first run of P30 Alpha, they offered it to Kickstarter supporters. I can't remember the price but it was reasonable. I bought 4 rolls. They said there were scratches and other issues with some of the batch and told people up front. Mine were all perfect.

I think we should also acknowledge that what they are doing is unbelievably hard. I also think that unlike some other folks (e.g. ADOX) they did not know what they were getting in to. I would appreciate more communication, but they do post updates on their website. It would be nice to have a new one since the last was 6 months ago. I still wish them the best.

fs999 · Jan 29, 2021

Not only that, they have opened an account on their shop website with a credit of the amount of your subscription. When the shop is opened you can buy free films for that amount.
Who had ever do that on Kickstarter ?

Agulliver · Jan 29, 2021

FIlm Ferrania have been very good with communication. Especially bearing in mind we are in the midst of a global plague and the area with their factory and where NIcola lives was one of the first badly affected areas outside of China.

They've been clear throughout the process what went wrong, what went right, the obstacles and achievements. Far more transparent than Kodak and light years away from Fuji. I honestly don't know what more a handful of people want. Some still seem to be under the illusion that they ordered film when making *donations* to the Kickstarter.

Scott Micciche · Jan 29, 2021

Adrian Bacon said:
Film Ferrania P30 H+D Curve with Replenished XTOL for 11:15 at 24C and 1 inversion every 2 minutes

I've tried quite a few times with XTOL and the P30 at EI 80 and have had zero luck as well.

wyofilm · Jan 29, 2021

Agulliver said:
FIlm Ferrania have been very good with communication. Especially bearing in mind we are in the midst of a global plague and the area with their factory and where NIcola lives was one of the first badly affected areas outside of China.

They've been clear throughout the process what went wrong, what went right, the obstacles and achievements. Far more transparent than Kodak and light years away from Fuji. I honestly don't know what more a handful of people want. Some still seem to be under the illusion that they ordered film when making *donations* to the Kickstarter.

Well said.

flavio81 · Jan 29, 2021

Agulliver said:
FIlm Ferrania have been very good with communication. Especially bearing in mind we are in the midst of a global plague and the area with their factory and where NIcola lives was one of the first badly affected areas outside of China.

They've been clear throughout the process what went wrong, what went right, the obstacles and achievements. Far more transparent than Kodak and light years away from Fuji. I honestly don't know what more a handful of people want. Some still seem to be under the illusion that they ordered film when making *donations* to the Kickstarter.

This!!

pentaxuser · Jan 29, 2021

Adrian Bacon said:
Its extremely orthochromatic. I posted a photo of a stop sign in the resources section when I posted my replenished xtol development times. The stop sign rendered nearly black.

Have you had the chance to compare it to Ilford's Ortho 80 Plus films in terms of its orthochromatic range? My impression but based only on scans of other users' negs and scans of prints from said negs is that in terms of reds it does render mid to deep reds as darker than Ilford's ortho film which certainly has less of an effect with paler reds

Thanks

pentaxuser

Adrian Bacon · Jan 29, 2021

Scott Micciche said:
I've tried quite a few times with XTOL and the P30 at EI 80 and have had zero luck as well.

It's best at EI 10 or 8 and a really short development time if you want pictorial contrast.

Adrian Bacon · Jan 29, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Have you had the chance to compare it to Ilford's Ortho 80 Plus films in terms of its orthochromatic range? My impression but based only on scans of other users' negs and scans of prints from said negs is that in terms of reds it does render mid to deep reds as darker than Ilford's ortho film which certainly has less of an effect with paler reds

Thanks

pentaxuser

Ilford's Ortho 80 is on my list of films to look at, so not as of yet, but it is on the list. All the shots I did with P30 are spots right outside my business, so I can take same/similar shots with Ortho 80 when I get to it.

pentaxuser · Jan 29, 2021

Adrian Bacon said:
Ilford's Ortho 80 is on my list of films to look at, so not as of yet, but it is on the list. All the shots I did with P30 are spots right outside my business, so I can take same/similar shots with Ortho 80 when I get to it.

Thanks Adrian. Such a direct comparison will be useful

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche · Jan 29, 2021

Adrian Bacon said:
It's best at EI 10 or 8 and a really short development time if you want pictorial contrast.

I'll probably stick to TMAX Dev 1:6 24C. Thanks for your hard work on XTOL; at least I and others know we're not alone in the poor development there. Surprising as it works so well with other films.

warden · Jan 29, 2021

Here's a wet print I did last year, just seeing what happens with P30 on paper. Check the colors of the flag.

I hope Ferrania can get P30 going in 120. I don't have a use for it in 35mm really, but I think I do in 120.

pentaxuser · Jan 29, 2021

Thanks for the pic,jawarden This does tend to show that Greg Davies' Macbeth colour chart on this film was right. If I recall correctly his blue and red squares were almost equal in tone as are the blue and red parts of the U.S. flag. I had always assumed that ortho rendered red as darker than blue. So to use U.K. soccer team, Crystal Palace, as an example whose shirts are red and blue vertical stripes would have very little difference in panchro but in ortho the contrast would be greater so the red stripes are darker than the blue. However in P30 both would be darker with little or no difference so the pic would be back to the same indistinguishable state between red and blue except that in panchro both stripes would look brighter

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche · Jan 29, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Thanks for the pic,jawarden This does tend to show that Greg Davies' Macbeth colour chart on this film was right. If I recall correctly his blue and red squares were almost equal in tone as are the blue and red parts of the U.S. flag. I had always assumed that ortho rendered red as darker than blue. So to use U.K. soccer team, Crystal Palace, as an example whose shirts are red and blue vertical stripes would have very little difference in panchro but in ortho the contrast would be greater so the red stripes are darker than the blue. However in P30 both would be darker with little or no difference so the pic would be back to the same indistinguishable state between red and blue except that in panchro both stripes would look brighter

pentaxuser

I have some darker blue/red, but nothing like some of the charts I've seen. I did not take a capture using HC-110, however. This is TMAX 1:6.

Adrian Bacon · Jan 30, 2021

Greg Davis said:
After I publish the videos of Ilford Ortho 80 and Rollei Ortho 25 I will make a video showing these three side by side.

awesome. I'd love to see it. You do good video work.

relistan · Feb 2, 2021

Greg Davis said:
After I publish the videos of Ilford Ortho 80 and Rollei Ortho 25 I will make a video showing these three side by side.

Awesome, would love to see it!

pentaxuser · Feb 2, 2021

Having time on my hands in the lockdown I did a search on Google and unsurprisingly it took me back to this very thread which now has 38 pages. I should really have trawled the whole thread again as this current aspect of its ortho side arose quite a long time ago and once again what we had were seemingly conflicting shots of red. One from someone in Preston I think showed a house in the form of an icon which was red and that was certainly as dark as a full ortho film would render that colour but another was that of a house with orange/red roof and frankly they were rendered about the same as my panchro films seem to render this colour

I have since watched a video reviewing P30 by Analog Insights where using a red filter was mentioned. It wasn't clear to me which shots were made using red but the presenter, based on other videos of his seemed knowledgeable and honest so I assume that a red was used. Well in a full ortho film a red filter results in no exposure at all doesn't it ?

Finally I could find no presenters mentioning P30's ability to be processed under red light. If this were possible then I'd imagine that this was almost certain to be mentioned either by its regular users here or Ferrania itself

Do we have any spectral graph yet for P30?

Finally looking at Scott's colour charts it rendition of what looks to be mid blur to me, namely square 013 does seem to be rendered very dark and yet the lighter blues of 003 and 008 are almost white while what appears to be a slightly desaturated red is rendered what I'd expect a panchro film to render it as.

So it remains confusing for me

Scott can I finally ask if the bottom set of unnumbered coloured squares marked as Xrite are the same as the topmost set which are numbered are different from topmost set of numbered squares. I assume not as they look different but based on the Xrite squares in shades of grey the red and blue are both darker than I'd expect a full panchro film to render them but red is clearly darker than blue and here the red appeared top be rendered as dark as you'd expect a genuine ortho film like Ilford Ortho 80 Plus to be able to?

Thanks

pentaxuser

twelvetone12 · Feb 3, 2021

I have the impression the P30 have some wild batch-to-batch differences. When it came out I played with around 15 rolls which were clearly from different batches (some had no edge mark, some had the "reversed" edge mark, some had the "correct" one) and I had immense differences with them. I did use a red filter and in some occasions I got basically a transparent film while with other I got usable results. When I proposed this here I was chastised into oblivion because surely I was doing something wrong and my development fails selectively for P30. On the other hand Ferrania stated a couple times that they did no testing on the film - no iso testing, no spectral sensitivity, so I'm not sure here. It kinda "comforts" me having other people getting results similar to mine. I also wonder if storage conditions affect the film and how much, as that could be a factor, but I personally did no test on that.

pentaxuser · Feb 3, 2021

twelvetone 12, my worry with Photrio and it does seem to be getting worse is that an objective discussion to jointly get to the bottom of a new product, developer, method etc is that such a discussion is getting more difficult to have. A great pity

pentaxuser

pentaxuser · Feb 3, 2021

michael_r said:
pentaxuser, worry not. That was never the case. Even if there may (or may not) have been more collective agreements on certain issues in the past, they were no more correct.

This is really not neuro-surgery. Greg’s tests with the colour chart are pretty good. If you are unsure, it is very easy to test this for yourself and get a good enough answer for all practical purposes.

Thanks, michae-r, for that I was confused as to which colour chart the B&W charts came from in Scott's last post. As I said the rendering of the blues and reds as shades of grey seemed to vary and I wasn't which greys were the equivalent of the deep mid blue and mid reds. In one case the blue certainly looked darker than the red but no doubt Scott will elucidate

So what's your conclusions about how ortho P30 is based on either your experience or Scott's charts or indeed Greg Davies' chart in his video where both red and blue rendering looked to produce greys that were darker than I'd expect panchro to render them and looked both equally dark. I certainly found that a puzzle

Have you tried to see if P30 like the Ilford Ortho 80 Plus can be developed under deep red light?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche · Feb 3, 2021

pentaxuser said:
Thanks, michae-r, for that I was confused as to which colour chart the B&W charts came from in Scott's last post. As I said the rendering of the blues and reds as shades of grey seemed to vary and I wasn't which greys were the equivalent of the deep mid blue and mid reds. In one case the blue certainly looked darker than the red but no doubt Scott will elucidate

So what's your conclusions about how ortho P30 is based on either your experience or Scott's charts or indeed Greg Davies' chart in his video where both red and blue rendering looked to produce greys that were darker than I'd expect panchro to render them and looked both equally dark. I certainly found that a puzzle

Have you tried to see if P30 like the Ilford Ortho 80 Plus can be developed under deep red light?

Thanks

pentaxuser

I used two different charts, the X-Rite is the standard and the other I have used for indoor digital shooting. I posted the color version in case someone wanted to compare the numbers and colors. I captured the color images in the same light as the P30, but had to use a cell phone to do so (not color accurate, but shows the different shades). Below is a color chart of P30 using Silvermax developer using their 100ISO Silvermax film recipe (same lighting, overcast).

Since their red colors varied a bit, I captured both. I believe the ortho tendencies varies greatly by developer used. Another big difference is my images are scanned as images on a light table of 5000k. Greg made proper prints and if water wasn't so costly here, I would as well. TMAX Dev seems to be a nice, low contrast developer for most films I use it with, especially Acros and now the P30 and it give me the look I have desired from the motion picture variety used in the 60s.

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 3, 2021

Would be nice if Ferrania posted a spectral sensitivity chart on their website.

pentaxuser · Feb 3, 2021

I believe the ortho tendencies varies greatly by developer used.

Thanks Scott. I hadn't realised that the ortho tendencies of a film can be influenced by what developer is used Over the years my impression is that we spoke little of ortho films here on Photrio, simply because until Ilford's new film there was little of it about and what there was didn't seem to figure much on threads. Maybe others whose knowledge of such matters and interest in them is far better than mine can say if this is something they have experienced

What remains the case is that P30 appears to be a film where people's experiences if it and its "colours" do seem to vary by quite a bit and certainly if Greg's chart is right then both blue and red do seem to be rendered very dark grey which in itself is unusual - I think

As Andrew has posted above, a spectral sensitivity chart by Ferrania would be very helpful as would comments by them as to whether they discovered different developers affecting P30's ortho tendencies

I'd imagine that at the very least and until they publish a spectral chart, they might be able to confirm to what extent P30 did exhibit changes in colour rendition and whether in its present completed form how close it is to ortho

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche · Feb 3, 2021

Greg Davis said:
pentaxuser, I went back and checked my print from Ferrania and it is the red and green patches that are very dark. The blue is much lighter than the other two. That would indicate the blue received more exposure, red and green less. I doubt very much that developers can influence how a film sees colors.

Yes, not only my red/green, but shades of tan as well are a bit darker. Is it possible developer speed loss makes all the shades darker as a whole?

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 3, 2021

Reds were always rendered extremely dark with P30, compared to pan films that I use. If it is a pan film, it looks like its sensitivity barely reaches red...regardless of developer. As michael_r stated, the developer has nothing to do with spectral sensitivity. I've got one roll left. I'll probably run it through D-23 1+3, most likely at EI 20-25, to see how that affects contrast, grain, tone, etc. I do hope they come out with 120. Would be great to compare it to Pan F.

Film Ferrania p30

relistan

fs999

Agulliver

Scott Micciche

wyofilm

flavio81

pentaxuser

Adrian Bacon

Adrian Bacon

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche

warden

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche

Adrian Bacon

relistan

pentaxuser

twelvetone12

pentaxuser

pentaxuser

Scott Micciche

Andrew O'Neill

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