Film Ferrania p30

[twelvetone12]

I'm upset because I want more p30 to shoot (and so have a justification to mix d96)
More seriously trough: do you have a technical explanation why developers such as Rodinal do not work well with the film (i.e., speed loss, red sensitivity loss [!])?

 

[aleckurgan]

Dave, I think it would be even more interesting to know why you said Xtol is "perhaps the worst possible developer for P30 film"? And whether this can be expanded to all phenidone-ascorbate developers or Xtol has some special component, which doesn't really work with P30?

 

[grommi]

Thank you FILM Ferrania for the statement. I also don't follow all posts here on Apug (sorry, I simply don't get used to the name "photrio"). All the more so it would be important imho to keep the news section of filmferrania.it updated, which did not happen since August. I can't understand why this is not on the official filmferrania site. This is the first place to look for me and I guess many, many others and not the vast amount of obscure posts in social media etc. So don't be surprised about rumours.

 

[Ces1um]

Wow. 120 and super 8 as possibilities. If it happens I'll definitely have to give it a try. I don't own a super 8 camera (and probably never will) but I'd love to see the results. 120 though... that piques my interest for certain.

 

[Scott Micciche]

Nikon F6/Nikkor 85mm f/2, 80ASA, Developed in Kodak TMAX Developer, 1:6 @ 24C for 7 minutes. Kodak TMAX agitation: 5-7 rapid inversions initial 30s and 5-7 each 30s. Water stop bath, TF-4 fix for 5 minutes, Ilford wash method, photo flo and cabinet dry. Scanned via Pakon F135 to raw, inverted using colorperfect, no other modifications.

 

[faberryman]

What can you say about this film other than it works?

 

[Scott Micciche]

What can you say about this film other than it works?

I guess you could say: "It worked for me and here are my results and technique."?

 

[benveniste]

Did The Darkroom process and scan this image, or did you use their specs in your own tank?

Both, although my own scan with a Coolscan 8000 exhibited similar results.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I guess you could say: "It worked for me and here are my results and technique."?

Thanks for posting your results, Scott. I will give P30 a go when they bring it out in 120.

 

[fdonadio]

I will give P30 a go when they bring it out in 120.

I am anxiously waiting for that day.

 

[Trask]

I’d give it a go in 35mm if it were generally available. The last time I dropped in on this discussion it appeared that P30 was not on the market and available to the general public, meaning me/us. If I’ve got this wrong and I can buy it online, please let me know.

 

[fdonadio]

I’d give it a go in 35mm if it were generally available. The last time I dropped in on this discussion it appeared that P30 was not on the market and available to the general public, meaning me/us. If I’ve got this wrong and I can buy it online, please let me know.

It was available for a short time as an “alpha” product. Ferrania used this emulsion formula to test the factory equipment and all the production was sold in a week. They ran into some problems during production and took a long time to manufacture all the ordered films.

Since then, Ferrania is fine tuning their coating line and working with their finishing/packaging partner to sort out problems, but they say this partner is not meeting their needs.

They are stockpiling film so, when they reopen their web store again, they can meet the demand.

 

[WilmarcoImaging]

Great results Scott.

 

[Trask]

It was available for a short time as an “alpha” product. Ferrania used this emulsion formula to test the factory equipment and all the production was sold in a week. They ran into some problems during production and took a long time to manufacture all the ordered films.

Since then, Ferrania is fine tuning their coating line and working with their finishing/packaging partner to sort out problems, but they say this partner is not meeting their needs.

They are stockpiling film so, when they reopen their web store again, they can meet the demand.

Thank you for the concise synopsis of where P-30 availability currently stands. I’ll take a look at Ferrania’s website from time to time see what’s what. And I’m sure that once it becomes fully available, I’ll read about it here on AP...Photrio.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

How long does it really take to provide periodic updates? For example, how long would it take to write:

"We are planning to have a very limited initial batch of P30 in 120 format in Feb/Mar, with more to come after that."

which is the news you shared with us today.

Making conditional and/or theoretical statements here on APUG is very different from making announcements in our official channels.
Here on APUG, it's a lot easier (although I have found that I still need to be careful) to make more casually worded posts because most APUG subscribers have proven to be more generally knowledgeable about what we are doing, the challenges we face, etc.

Sending out email blasts through Kickstarter and/or publishing posts on our site requires a lot more preparation, content of substance, and the best possible information available at the time. With things changing almost constantly, this is difficult.
And while we completely understand that we should make official updates on a more regular basis, we also have to balance the frequency with the substance - otherwise we simply become annoying and folks stop listening. We've seen this in the past and decided that it wasn't worth losing people just for the sake of making regularly scheduled posts.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Reversal processing?

dr5 in the US has done some reversal testing, as has EM at Emulsive.org and PFG in Milano. A quick googling should unearth their findings.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I'm upset because I want more p30 to shoot (and so have a justification to mix d96)
More seriously trough: do you have a technical explanation why developers such as Rodinal do not work well with the film (i.e., speed loss, red sensitivity loss [!])?

We truly do not have a technical explanation because that would require specialized staff to run the film through a battery of tests to determine exactly what was going on during processing.

We do have all of the necessary testing equipment installed in the LRF - electron microscopes, chemical apparatus, etc. But we cannot currently afford to staff the room (probably for quite some time yet) and the rest of our small team is focused on making the actual film.

And so instead of focusing on the "why," we're working with a few photographers to test various Rodinal techniques to find one that yields the type of results we expect, and that works consistently. (The consistency is the main problem with that particular chemistry)

The "why" will come later...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

It was available for a short time as an “alpha” product. Ferrania used this emulsion formula to test the factory equipment and all the production was sold in a week. They ran into some problems during production and took a long time to manufacture all the ordered films.

Since then, Ferrania is fine tuning their coating line and working with their finishing/packaging partner to sort out problems, but they say this partner is not meeting their needs.

They are stockpiling film so, when they reopen their web store again, they can meet the demand.

This is a very accurate and succinct assessment. Just one correction - the film will remain in its ALPHA version until we deem it "cinema-quality." All of our films in the future will also be held to this standard.

 

[faberryman]

And so instead of focusing on the "why," we're working with a few photographers to test various Rodinal techniques to find one that yields the type of results we expect, and that works consistently. (The consistency is the main problem with that particular chemistry)

This is nonsense. Consistency in processing with Rodinal is not a problem. It is a well understood developer that has been around for over a hundred years. I have used it myself for over forty years. It always works in a predictable manner. Sure, just like every other developer, you can experiment with different dilutions, at different temperatures, for different times, and with different agitation patterns, but if you just follow the directions it works every time.

Query: what was the developer and processing methodology you used to determine P30 has an ISO of 80?

One question that has remained unanswered is how many rolls of P30 did you actually deliver to customers?

 

[fdonadio]

This is a very accurate and succinct assessment. Just one correction - the film will remain in its ALPHA version until we deem it "cinema-quality." All of our films in the future will also be held to this standard.

Thanks, Dave! I didn’t want to mean that P30 will get its “alpha” designation dropped any time soon and, looking at what I wrote, it really looks like I did. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[pentaxuser]

Nikon F6/Nikkor 85mm f/2, 80ASA, Developed in Kodak TMAX Developer, 1:6 @ 24C for 7 minutes. Kodak TMAX agitation: 5-7 rapid inversions initial 30s and 5-7 each 30s. Water stop bath, TF-4 fix for 5 minutes, Ilford wash method, photo flo and cabinet dry. Scanned via Pakon F135 to raw, inverted using colorperfect, no other modifications.

I like the cat one but can't help but observe that one of the pupils( right one from the cat's perspective) is much bigger than the left one but both seem to be subject to the same amount of light falling on them. Is this a peculiarity of the cat's eyes?

Not relevant to the thread I know but I am curious.

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[twelvetone12]

The "why" will come later...

I respectfully disagree on this one. It is not just some sort of nerd thing, but having full documentation and specifications of one product IMHO helps understand and use it better. I understand that the priority is elsewhere now, but I still think comprehensive documentation it is an important companion to the product itself, in particular for something like p30 that variates a lot depending on the developer.

 

[Scott Micciche]

I like the cat one but can't help but observe that one of the pupils( right one from the cat's perspective) is much bigger than the left one but both seem to be subject to the same amount of light falling on them. Is this a peculiarity of the cat's eyes?

Not relevant to the thread I know but I am curious.

Thanks

pentaxuser

I belive it is just the shading, they appear the same to me, but he rarely sits still long enough to get a thorough examination.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

This is nonsense. Consistency in processing with Rodinal is not a problem. It is a well understood developer that has been around for over a hundred years. I have used it myself for over forty years. It always works in a predictable manner. Sure, just like every other developer, you can experiment with different dilutions, at different temperatures, for different times, and with different agitation patterns, but if you just follow the directions it works every time.

Query: what was the developer and processing methodology you used to determine P30 has an ISO of 80?

One question that has remained unanswered is how many rolls of P30 did you actually deliver to customers?

Regarding Rodinal - when I said consistency, I was referring to the results we have seen posted online - not the chemistry itself. We have only just recently seen a technique that yields the kind of results we expect from P30. We are currently trying to replicate this technique to provide a stable, repeatable procedure that we feel comfortable recommending.

The process to determine the ISO was done long before we ever coated the first roll and it has to do with sensitizers in the emulsion, not the developer. The only developer we use in-house is Kodak D-96 because it is nearly identical to the original P30 developer Ferrania made in the 1960s and 70s. Our techniques are posted in our Best Practices document.

The only answer I have to your last question is; "All of them."

 

[twelvetone12]

One question that has remained unanswered is how many rolls of P30 did you actually deliver to customers?

But knowing the number of months it took produce the batch, and the finishing throughput... the estimate seems quite favorable!