Ferrania P33 experiences?

albireo · Apr 24, 2024

Perhaps I'm the last one to find out about this but Ferrania has a new 35mm panchromatic film out for sale

P33

Explore and purchase our photographic films, capturing the imagination of filmmakers, photographers, and artists worldwide. The film that shaped the history of cinema has returned to tell stories through the art of analog photography. In black and white.

www.filmferrania.com

I'm considering placing a bulk order to understand if I like it and I'd be interested in experiences with this film. Perhaps I'm not looking at the right places, but I can't find a full spec sheet with the usual data - I'm particularly interested in spectral response graphs, development curves etc, but also whether it has good halation properties or not. I'd also be interested in any considerations re grain structure in common developers (e.g. D76 1:1). I've seen a couple of early reviews online but they seem to concentrate on personal speed determination neglecting the rest.

A few shots in this thread caught my attention:

https://rangefinderforum.com/threads/ferrania-p33-first-roll-and-some-observations.4816335/

The results shown in posts #17 and #19 show potentially interesting tonal qualities in direct sunlight but I thought I'd double check before committing to a batch. I want to understand if I'd prefer this to FP4+ and Fomapan 200 as general purpose medium speed panchromatic summer or 'good light' film.

Nopo · Apr 24, 2024

You could ask @Andrew O'Neill

Ferrania P33 First Time Outing...

It's actually quite a nice film, that I quite like. I hope it comes out in 120!

www.photrio.com

Carlos

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

Ferrania does not provide characteristic curves, or spectral sensitivity graphs (sadly). I stuck some of my own curves, as well as a shot with a colour checker in my video, which Carlos kindly linked above (thank you!)
Personally, I think it's a very nice film. I'm patiently waiting for the 120 version... some sheet film would be nice, too!

runswithsizzers · Apr 24, 2024

I have a roll in the camera right now. Will post back after I develop it.

If Ferrania has anything like a proper data sheet, I have been unable to find it. I think the document they call "FERRANIA P33 BEST PRACTICES" <https://analogfilm.space/datasheets/ferrania-p33.pdf> is about all they provide, other than the typical blurb on their website. <https://www.filmferrania.com/pages/p33>

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

runswithsizzers said:
I have a roll in the camera right now. Will post back after I develop it.

If Ferrania has anything like a proper data sheet, I have been unable to find it. I think the document they call "FERRANIA P33 BEST PRACTICES" <https://analogfilm.space/datasheets/ferrania-p33.pdf> is about all they provide, other than the typical blurb on their website. <https://www.filmferrania.com/pages/p33>

When you hang up the negatives to dry, take a close look at the sprocket holes to see whether or not the emulsion appears swollen, more than modern films. I showed some examples in my video...It reminded me of the old thick emulsion films of yore...

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

...or Ferrania foregoes a hardener in their emulsions. Funny, I don't recall seeing it with P30.

albireo · Apr 24, 2024

Thank you @Nopo and @Andrew O'Neill - this is great

Andy I went through the video - many thanks (loved your choice of music!). First one comment: your shots are in the exact lighting setting I am interested in and I keep seeing the tonal rendering qualities I noticed in those shots mentioned in my post above. Encouraging! A couple of questions if I may

I was very interested in your unfiltered P33 vs HP5+ comparison. You note an overall panchromatic rendering for both with a few differences, mainly the darker red in the P33. I notice though that your HP5+ color chart seems to be pasted in the video from another source and the 'control' tone (the black background surrounding the colour squares) is actually a very dark grey. If you equalize the 'control' for both charts, does the subtle red difference remain?
I was interested in your comment about the swollen emulsion. I have never seen anything like it. Are there any practical consequences of this phenomenon on the image? Can this property be manipulated in any way as a further variable during development? I saw a note in the video on 'water bath' (?) if I'm correct but I don't know what you meant.

Many thanks and I'd be interested in your side by side comparison of FP4+ vs P33 vs Foma 200 in D76 if possible.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

I did fiddle with the colour charts' contrasts/brightnesses, and with each rendering, the reds remained slightly different.
Water bath development was used to control contrast. It worked quite nicely with those older, thick emulsion films. They could hold more developer when it was transferred over to the water bath.

runswithsizzers · Apr 24, 2024

I was hoping to process my Ferrania P33 in XTOL, ~~but I have no idea what would be a good starting time~~ (read on). So far, there is no data in the Massive Development Chart (MDC) for P33 in any developer.

For me, P33 is not something I want to shoot if it must metered at EI 80 -- but I am very interested if I can get results I like at EI 125-160. And for that, I feel like I'd have better luck with a speed enhancing / maintaining developer like XTOL or Ilford Microphen. If anyone has tried processing P33 in XTOL or Microphen, I'd love to hear about your results.

Ferrania does give times for P33 in Bellini Ecofilm Developer which some say (not Bellini) is like XTOL. But Ecofilm is a liquid, so obviously, it is not a strict XTOL clone.

AhHa! When I try to look up times on the MDC for Bellini Ecofilm Developer, the MDC says "Please use the times posted for Xtol with this developer." I'm going to try developing my P33 in XTOL, using the time given by Ferrania for Ecofilm (1+1) = 7:00 at 20*C.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

runswithsizzers said:
I was hoping to process my Ferrania P33 in XTOL, ~~but I have no idea what would be a good starting time~~ (read on). So far, there is no data in the Massive Development Chart (MDC) for P33 in any developer.

For me, P33 is not something I want to shoot if it must metered at EI 80 -- but I am very interested if I can get results I like at EI 125-160. And for that, I feel like I'd have better luck with a speed enhancing / maintaining developer like XTOL or Ilford Microphen. If anyone has tried processing P33 in XTOL or Microphen, I'd love to hear about your results.

Ferrania does give times for P33 in Bellini Ecofilm Developer which some say (not Bellini) is like XTOL. But Ecofilm is a liquid, so obviously, it is not a strict XTOL clone.

AhHa! When I try to look up times on the MDC for Bellini Ecofilm Developer, the MDC says "Please use the times posted for Xtol with this developer." I'm going to try developing my P33 in XTOL, using the time given by Ferrania for Ecofilm (1+1) = 7:00 at 20*C.

Let us know how it goes! I'm sure you'll be happy even at box speed. P33 performed quite well for me at box in D76.

runswithsizzers · Apr 24, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:
Let us know how it goes! I'm sure you'll be happy even at box speed. P33 performed quite well for me at box in D76.

I hope so!

But now I'm confused. In your other thread you say, "For me it's an EI 80 film, but for someone else it might not be." In that thread, it is not entirely clear which film you are referring to, but I assumed you were talking about P33...? Of couse, we know that where we aim our meters is at least as important as what EI number the meter is set to, so my number is likely to be different from yours.

And yes, I will post an update after I have seen my results.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

runswithsizzers said:
I hope so!

But now I'm confused. In your other thread you say, "For me it's an EI 80 film, but for someone else it might not be." In that thread, it is not entirely clear which film you are referring to, but I assumed you were talking about P33...? Of couse, we know that where we aim our meters is at least as important as what EI number the meter is set to, so my number is likely to be different from yours.

And yes, I will post an update after I have seen my results.

I tested P33 at box speed in the video. It did well at it (with average metring with the K1000) but, I prefer more weight in the deep shadows, hence my EI 80 remark.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 24, 2024

albireo said:
Thank you @Nopo and @Andrew O'Neill - this is great

Andy I went through the video - many thanks (loved your choice of music!). First one comment: your shots are in the exact lighting setting I am interested in and I keep seeing the tonal rendering qualities I noticed in those shots mentioned in my post above. Encouraging! A couple of questions if I may

I was very interested in your unfiltered P33 vs HP5+ comparison. You note an overall panchromatic rendering for both with a few differences, mainly the darker red in the P33. I notice though that your HP5+ color chart seems to be pasted in the video from another source and the 'control' tone (the black background surrounding the colour squares) is actually a very dark grey. If you equalize the 'control' for both charts, does the subtle red difference remain?

I was interested in your comment about the swollen emulsion. I have never seen anything like it. Are there any practical consequences of this phenomenon on the image? Can this property be manipulated in any way as a further variable during development? I saw a note in the video on 'water bath' (?) if I'm correct but I don't know what you meant.

Many thanks and I'd be interested in your side by side comparison of FP4+ vs P33 vs Foma 200 in D76 if possible.

Upon reflection, Fomapan 200 has extended red sensitivity, out to about 720nm. I imagine P33 would be closer to FP4's spectral response.

albireo · Apr 25, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:
Upon reflection, Fomapan 200 has extended red sensitivity, out to about 720nm

Hi Andy, actually It doesn't - it has a pretty standard panchromatic response, very similar to FP4+, or Tri-X

Check out the Naked Photographer's spectral response comparison here

(Foma 200, slightly underdeveloped, left)

I wonder if you were getting mixed up with Fomapan 400, which is the one of the three Fomas with long reds up to almost 700nm.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 25, 2024

albireo said:
Hi Andy, actually It doesn't - it has a pretty standard panchromatic response, very similar to FP4+, or Tri-X

Check out the Naked Photographer's spectral response comparison here

(Foma 200, slightly underdeveloped, left)

I wonder if you were getting mixed up with Fomapan 400, which is the one of the three Fomas with long reds up to almost 700nm.

This is what I have. Did Foma make two versions of 200?

albireo · Apr 25, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:
This is what I have. Did Foma make two versions of 200?

View attachment 369052

ahah wow! Pretty sure it's a mistake in their pdf. That looks like a cut&paste of the Foma 400 spectral graph further shifted right!

Actually if you check the one currently online for Foma 200, on their website, the plot goes even further into the red compared to yours above.

Foma, your intern is making a mess of that Adobe Illustrator!

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 25, 2024

albireo said:
ahah wow! Pretty sure it's a mistake in their pdf. That looks like a cut&paste of the Foma 400 spectral graph further shifted right!

Actually if you check the one currently online for Foma 200, on their website, the plot goes even further into the red compared to yours above.

Foma, your intern is making a mess of that Adobe Illustrator!

That's the reason why I bought the film... for the extended red

pentaxuser · Apr 25, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:
That's the reason why I bought the film... for the extended red

Andrew, have you had a chance to use it and compare it to other panchromatic films to see if it does have extended red?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 25, 2024

pentaxuser said:
Andrew, have you had a chance to use it and compare it to other panchromatic films to see if it does have extended red?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Not yet, but I intend to!

albireo · Apr 26, 2024

Going back to P33, has anyone ordered directly from Filmferrania.com? I seem to be able to place an order, but it's unclear if the film is in stock.

When I check on Fotoimpex or Maco, it's out of stock.

DeletedAcct1 · Apr 26, 2024

albireo said:
Going back to P33, has anyone ordered directly from Filmferrania.com? I seem to be able to place an order, but it's unclear if the film is in stock.

When I check on Fotoimpex or Maco, it's out of stock.

If it says "Add to cart" the film is available.
For instance https://www.filmferrania.com/products/ferrania-orto-135-36 Orto is not available

runswithsizzers · Apr 26, 2024

albireo said:
Going back to P33,

Thank you

albireo said:
...has anyone ordered directly from Filmferrania.com? I seem to be able to place an order, but it's unclear if the film is in stock.

When I check on Fotoimpex or Maco, it's out of stock.

Some time ago, I put my name on Ferrania's list to be notified when P33 is available. On April 4, I got an email from Ferrania saying P33 is "back in stock" -- and checking their website just now, it looks like I can still order P33 directly from Ferrania at this link <https://www.filmferrania.com/it/products/ferrania-p33-135-36-160-iso>

Being located in the US, it was more efficient for me to buy P33 from Freestyle, who still shows it as available on their website, but is warning of "Low Stock" <https://www.freestylephoto.com/1633135-Ferrania-P33-160-ISO-35mm-x-36-exp>

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 26, 2024

CineStill, and B&H are also temporarily out of P33. I've got a few rolls in the fridge, so I can wait for them to restock. I do however, would prefer it in 120. Hopefully that'll be sooner than later...

pentaxuser · Apr 26, 2024

Andrew O'Neill said:
Not yet, but I intend to!

Great stuff. I look forward to your results, Andrew

pentaxuser

albireo · Apr 28, 2024

Order placed for my usual initial 10 test rolls of P33. @runswithsizzers let's update this thread with some results once we have them!

Ferrania P33 experiences?

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P33

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Ferrania P33 First Time Outing...

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