Ferrania P30 available

[abruzzi]

Whether or not you can get film has a lot more to do with the distribution resources available than it has to do with the manufacturer's preferences.
Ferrania doesn't have the ability to do the sales themselves - they don't have enough people - but they do have a small marketing presence in North America.

I suspect that they are also limiting locations because they are ramping up production, and they can't yet supply enough film to all markets.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Whether or not you can get film has a lot more to do with the distribution resources available than it has to do with the manufacturer's preferences.
Ferrania doesn't have the ability to do the sales themselves - they don't have enough people - but they do have a small marketing presence in North America.

Perhaps they should explain the problem openly, if there is one that is. From web site it looks like direct sales, and if that is the case, how is that different: ship it here or here?

 

[Agulliver]

They keep explaining their situation and have repeatedly explained how their production is limited and how their website and sales are handled totally by other entities. But people choose not to read, or not to believe.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

They keep explaining their situation and have repeatedly explained how their production is limited and how their website and sales are handled totally by other entities. But people choose not to read, or not to believe.

Please do link me to those explanations, I see nothing there telling me how film is made in Italy and only sold to US/Canadian markets.

 

[abruzzi]

I took my suspicion from:

https://www.filmferrania.it/p30

where it says “limited quantities” and “USA and Canada Only”

and this interview:

https://www.casualphotophile.com/20...ania-p30-film-now-shipping-to-usa-and-canada/

Has the following Q/A:


CP / JAMES – Orders are currently limited to the USA and Canada. Will this change, and do you have any idea when customers in other parts of the world will be able to buy Ferrania P30?

DAVE – We are intending to be a global company, but we are still extremely small in terms of the staff, and we want to take things slow. We want to make an EU store as soon as we can, but we don’t want to do that until we can cover the continuous orders we’ll receive in a way that we’re not over-reaching. We want to make sure that everyone who buys film from us can get the support that they might need.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I took my suspicion from:

https://www.filmferrania.it/p30

where it says “limited quantities” and “USA and Canada Only”

and this interview:

https://www.casualphotophile.com/20...ania-p30-film-now-shipping-to-usa-and-canada/

Has the following Q/A:


CP / JAMES – Orders are currently limited to the USA and Canada. Will this change, and do you have any idea when customers in other parts of the world will be able to buy Ferrania P30?

DAVE – We are intending to be a global company, but we are still extremely small in terms of the staff, and we want to take things slow. We want to make an EU store as soon as we can, but we don’t want to do that until we can cover the continuous orders we’ll receive in a way that we’re not over-reaching. We want to make sure that everyone who buys film from us can get the support that they might need.

Well, thanks, but first one is all over that place and no secret. Reason I asked why.

Second one, I have no idea where you found it, I was asking for Ferrania website, since

They keep explaining their situation and have repeatedly explained how their production is limited and how their website and sales are handled totally by other entities. But people choose not to read, or not to believe.

As what is widely available right now from major players is good enough for my type of use, I'm not losing sleep over it. I just don't trust those who are not completely open about what they are up to, and to me this case proves exactly that. Looking at website, there is more hype than concrete information, which reminds me of a different project. Perhaps there is some info I was looking for, just where is it? If I want to limit my sales geographically, then I simply say why so, right next to the big banner announcing it.

I do wish them well, the more the better for film market. When they have it for everyone, I just might try it.

 

[Agulliver]

How much more open could Film Ferrania be? They've told us about every single step of their journey, and usually received a fair amount of unpleasant feedback for their honesty....which is why we see much less of Dave Bias here. Throughout the process there were updates on their page, on their facebook page and I understand Twitter (though I don't use the latter). Film Ferrania have been far more open than any of us has any right to expect....and what do they get? Mistrust. It's no surprise that other companies have chosen not to engage with us.

 

[foc]

How much more open could Film Ferrania be? They've told us about every single step of their journey, and usually received a fair amount of unpleasant feedback for their honesty....which is why we see much less of Dave Bias here. Throughout the process there were updates on their page, on their facebook page and I understand Twitter (though I don't use the latter). Film Ferrania have been far more open than any of us has any right to expect....and what do they get? Mistrust. It's no surprise that other companies have chosen not to engage with us.

I can understand how Withold feels and I have expressed my reservations here and have been "attacked" for not believing what I was being told.

I don't wish to open it all up again but I have been in business (professional photographer, film processor, minilab) for the last 35 years and one thing I have learned is that to succeed you must be open and customer-friendly.
By customer friendly, I mean not your idea of what customer-friendly is BUT the customer's idea of it. (think like your customer)

As I have stated before, there are people here that believe everything Ferrania say and those that don't. There are some that are extream in their views, either way.
What is unfair, IMO, is to attack or belittle or condescend those that don't agree with your view.

 

[Agulliver]

I hope nobody feels I am attacking their opinions. What does make me sigh is people claiming Film Ferrania don't explain their actions when they are far more open than anyone other than perhaps Adox. The information as to why P30 availability is currently limited is easily available, and has been explained.

 

[fs999]

Ferrania is the only company explaining what they will do or think will be done. They don't have interest in end-users, apart the Kickstarter campaign, they want resellers. For that they have to produce a lot of films.
They opened the sell of a batch in limited quantity. Soon they will bring the P30 to all the market through resellers. Believe it or not. I'm an optimist.
Think about Alaris-Kodak selling E100 in 135 and they gave no informations during two years about the availability of E100 in 120 format...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Just wanted to try one, website says USA / Canada only. Anyone know why?
What kind of sense does this make for a film produced in Italy? Unless it is not in house production and another re-badge ???
It really stinks to me to have such a restriction, illogical. Otherwise they would have a reason posted on their website.

Hi,
As our shop says, the initial limitation to North America is temporary and because our production capacity is quite limited.
It's difficult for me to think of how we could have said this more clearly or simply.

And I really don't understand what you are saying about "another re-badge" - our ALPHA film, as well as the new version, are made by us.
We are temporarily (again, that word) using an Italian partner for finishing 35mm format, but very soon even that will move in-house.
These facts are also something we have spent a lot of time and effort to communicate.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Whether or not you can get film has a lot more to do with the distribution resources available than it has to do with the manufacturer's preferences.
Ferrania doesn't have the ability to do the sales themselves - they don't have enough people - but they do have a small marketing presence in North America.

Yes, quite small. It's me, for now.
But in fact we are mostly doing sales ourselves - direct to customers and to shops. Except in Italy where it's a mix. A long-standing distributor approached us a long time ago and we were happy to get a small amount into shops all over the home country. Eventually, we will have a mix worldwide, but we must do this at a pace that matches production.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I hope nobody feels I am attacking their opinions. What does make me sigh is people claiming Film Ferrania don't explain their actions when they are far more open than anyone other than perhaps Adox. The information as to why P30 availability is currently limited is easily available, and has been explained.

I must say that I sigh quite a bit in any given work day.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Ferrania is the only company explaining what they will do or think will be done. They don't have interest in end-users, apart the Kickstarter campaign, they want resellers. For that they have to produce a lot of films.
They opened the sell of a batch in limited quantity. Soon they will bring the P30 to all the market through resellers. Believe it or not. I'm an optimist.
Think about Alaris-Kodak selling E100 in 135 and they gave no informations during two years about the availability of E100 in 120 format...

Actually, our main interest is with end users. Resellers are extremely important and we plan to support them in ways we haven't seen for many decades in the film business - but even they would admit that the most important people are those who buy the film and use it.

You are entirely correct that P30 - and more - will be introduced soon to the global market. And in many cases, we will use resellers. But it will always be most important for us to work with the right partners, in the right places, to make sure that the end user is happy.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I suspect that they are also limiting locations because they are ramping up production, and they can't yet supply enough film to all markets.

Exactly. We will be doubling production of master rolls in phases throughout this year. With each doubling comes a round of testing to ensure consistency and quality - but so far, so good!

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Perhaps they should explain the problem openly, if there is one that is. From web site it looks like direct sales, and if that is the case, how is that different: ship it here or here?

It is really quite different. We could, of course, offer shipping globally from the US, but that would not be so good for customers because the shipping fees would be excessive.
And international shipping from the US is also quite unreliable in terms of tracking and confirming orders. Unless extra money is spent on fully expedited services.
Additionally, it is not a trivial task or expense to set up warehousing in various zones and split the production accordingly.
For now, it's best for everyone that we do not overextend ourselves while production ramps up.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Hi,
As our shop says, the initial limitation to North America is temporary and because our production capacity is quite limited.
It's difficult for me to think of how we could have said this more clearly or simply.

And I really don't understand what you are saying about "another re-badge" - our ALPHA film, as well as the new version, are made by us.
We are temporarily (again, that word) using an Italian partner for finishing 35mm format, but very soon even that will move in-house.
These facts are also something we have spent a lot of time and effort to communicate.

Since you have responded I wil say this directly:

1. I do not understand why P30 is geographically restrained and while you may see your explanation complete, I and many others do not. However, it is your business not mine and your decision to do whatever fits your plan. When I saw US&Canada only and basically nothing next to it, it raised questions in my head. Now I know there is nothing else to wait for, you are taking it slow, to quote your web site I still hope Ferrania will indeed make sustainable product and production will continue with increased volume. When that happens it will be nothing but good news to all who shoot film, regardless of whether they will ever get a hold of Ferrania film or not.

2, Regarding my re-badge bit ... I'll leave it to you if you really don't see the sarcasm in it. Yet, you make film in Europe and you will not sell it to Europe, because of what? Yes, you have "explained", perhaps you can see why some people question your strategy. To however many (as I am not alone) it does not make a lot of sense.

2. I have spent some time on FIlmFerrania.it. Great photos, yet reading through it, I would never back your campaign based on remaining content. I could explain, but I won't at this time. I need to take it slow, need to move all my thoughts in house before I can make sense.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Since you have responded I wil say this directly:

OK, I understand your sarcasm in the second #2 point. Apologies for not seeing it regarding re-badging, but I think we have different definitions of the word "re-badge."

 

[pbromaghin]

...P30 - and more - will be introduced soon to the global market.

 

[fs999]

I tried to buy some rolls from macodirect.de, but I was too late... I will receive a mail when available again.

 

[MNM]

Have 5 rolls on the way.

 

[fs999]

Back in shop at Macodirect.de...

 

[railwayman3]

My gripe is that, as a Kickstarter contributor, I still can't easily buy P30, and have had no direct communication from Ferrania as to the situation. And I would have been happy to buy at the retail price, not asking for a discount or freeby.

I declined the offer of "free" P30, in lieu of the original E6 film, on the (misleading) suggestion that the E6 film was only delayed a relatively short period. Not a word since.

Face it, I'd have done better just to spend my original contribution on quality, proven and readily available film from Kodak, Ilford, Adox, etc. IMHO, the whole Ferrania thing was a vanity project, as so many Kickstarter projects now seem to be.

 

[iandvaag]

Face it, I'd have done better just to spend my original contribution on quality, proven and readily available film

It depends on the time scale of your perspective. Please keep in mind the _principal_ aim of the entire Film Ferrania project: to build a factory and assemble the capabilities of supplying the film market for 100 more years. They have a unique situation where, as they grow, they have the potential for vertical integration. This allows them to become both self-sufficient, and capable of supplying other manufacturers. What if, in 5 years, the "film revival" collapses and the demand for film falls to 5% of its current volume? I can't imagine that Kodak (or even Ilford) would be able to continue producing film. But there's a chance that companies like Ferrania and Adox might.

If you simply want a readily available, quality roll of film, by all means go ahead and buy from Kodak. But know that any profits from your purchase will more than likely be used to pay down debts of an incredibly financialized company, and does little to ensure the continued supply of film for the next 100 years. This is the company that thought that "KodakCoin" and the "KashMiner" would be good ideas. On the other hand, Ferrania is an industrial project that employs real people and makes a real product. I would much prefer to support industrial capitalism over financial capitalism. In my view, Ferrania is about the furthest thing from a vanity project.

I don't mean to come down too hard on Kodak; I buy and use their products. They are also obviously also engaged in industrial projects, as evidenced by the recent reintroductions of TMZ and Ektachrome. I'm just trying to draw a contrast between supporting Ferrania compared to other film manufacturers. The tangible qualities of the product are not necessarily the only consideration when choosing which product to purchase.

 

[railwayman3]

I do understand, iandvaag, what you are saying and appreciate your view. However, I think that you are confusing the issue of the choice of readily-available, quality film (Ilford, Kodak, Adox, etc.) for a typical customer, with the altruistic (or even charitable) idea of supporting Ferrania in the hope that, some day, one day, they just might produce a choice of reliable films in various formats.

Your own suggestion that we should support Ferrania in case the "film revival" collapses, could equally apply to supporting Ilford, who at least already produce a choice of quality products (the largest and best choice of any manufacturer....film, paper. chemicals and accessories?) and, we presume, have a viable business plan ? Ilford and also Adox seem to support their customers, and, SFAIK. have not looked for financial support to do this.