Exeter Pan XX - what is it?

Agulliver · Sep 9, 2022

I've seen this popping up on eBay - Exeter Pan XX B&W film

EXETER PAN XX 400 B&W FRESH BULK 30M x 35mm FAST FILM DEV ILFORD HP5 FOMOPAN 400 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for EXETER PAN XX 400 B&W FRESH BULK 30M x 35mm FAST FILM DEV ILFORD HP5 FOMOPAN 400 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

The description says "very high quality (probably the best)". It also says it's made in the EU and can be rated at 250, 400 or 640 ISO. Made in EU makes me think it's Fomapan 400? But maybe it's something the remnants of Agfa are manufacturing as the description also mentions it's spooled from left overs from long rolls. The seller offers various lengths, 25 feet, 50, 100 and longer. Does anyone know what this is?

koraks · Sep 9, 2022

Well, the listing says 'Fomopan 400'; I'd say that's a pretty clear clue. And not just about the seller's lack of copy-paste capabilities.

AgX · Sep 9, 2022

"EXE-FIL ml XX"

Interesting name for a film...

I guess "ml" means "multi latitude", a term that is debatable already on itself, with multiple meaning many not large...

koraks · Sep 9, 2022

I think "XX" is a reference to double-X, "Exeter" is probably a reference made in an attempt to associate the product with Harman (cf. Kentmere).

The entire product name is just a train wreck of linguistical mishaps and piggyback branding. It's so ridiculous that it's actually funny in a way.

Agulliver · Sep 9, 2022

koraks said:
Well, the listing says 'Fomopan 400'; I'd say that's a pretty clear clue. And not just about the seller's lack of copy-paste capabilities.

The listing says the film is developed as per Fomapan 400 or Ilford HP5 so not many clues really.

If you zoom in on the canister labels they mention that it's respooled from longer rolls, and make reference to "Exeter, England" which may be the town where the respooling is done? It's offered by Eaton Helen Cameras on eBay who are based near Exeter.

It's a bit odd. Prices are actually OK but I'm curious as to what it is. If it *is* Fomapan I can get the Foma branded stuff at much the same price. If it's something else, I'm interested.

pentaxuser · Sep 9, 2022

koraks said:
I think "XX" is a reference to double-X, "Exeter" is probably a reference made in an attempt to associate the product with Harman (cf. Kentmere).

The entire product name is just a train wreck of linguistical mishaps and piggyback branding. It's so ridiculous that it's actually funny in a way.

I agree with your sentiments but I cannot think of any link between Exeter and Harman or Kentmere. What made you think there being a link with the word Exeter?

Exeter sounds as if the seller may be trying to make it sound as if this is a sensible, reliable no nonsense and "grounded" as in "not given to fantasy" film as might have been the case in "Fantome 8" or "Babylon 13" I wonder what happened to those films?

I can imagine an established and reliable English solicitor being called "Mr Exeter or Mr Charles Exeter of Tunbridge Wells where legal matters are handled proficiently and without fuss

pentaxuser

M-88 · Sep 9, 2022

Agulliver said:
The listing says the film is developed as per Fomapan 400 or Ilford HP5 so not many clues really.

Native sensitivity of Fomapan 400 is somewhere between 200 and 250. Using a simple D-76 developer I got lost shadows at EI400 and mushy grain at EI800. After pretty much wasting 7-8 rolls I came to conclusion that it's better exposed and developed at EI200. HP5+ on the other hand excels at EI400, works well at EI200 (albeit with decreased contrast) and pushes nicely at EI800. Developing times for these two films are as different, as final results. So that statement from the seller is funny at best.

AgX · Sep 9, 2022

koraks said:
I think "XX" is a reference to double-X.

Yes, as they also got a "EXE-Fil ml X" which is labelled 100 ISO.

Donald Qualls · Sep 9, 2022

I wonder if they're respooling ORWO cine film? That would cover "Made in EU" and all the rest...

Agulliver · Sep 9, 2022

Well I've gambled on buying 25 feet of the Exeter Pan XX so will report any findings in due course.....if there are any letters or numbers in the rebate, or cine sprocket holes that will give clues.

Donald Qualls · Sep 9, 2022

Sounds like just about enough to get your development dialed in...

koraks · Sep 9, 2022

pentaxuser said:
I cannot think of any link between Exeter and Harman or Kentmere. What made you think there being a link with the word Exeter?

Both are geographical designations in England and the only vowels in both names are e's, making them phonetically somewhat similar. Like I said, as a means of piggyback marketing, it makes a lot of sense.

@Agulliver I hear you on the HP5+; however, HP5+ is not manufactured in the EU, while Fomapan 400 is. In addition, Fomapan would be an attractive starting point price-wise for a small-scale respooling operation. Get some Fomapan 100ft rolls, respool to 25ft making 4 rolls out of the original one, sell at a significantly uplifted price and make a couple of pounds of profit.

pentaxuser · Sep 9, 2022

M-88 said:
Native sensitivity of Fomapan 400 is somewhere between 200 and 250. Using a simple D-76 developer I got lost shadows at EI400 and mushy grain at EI800. After pretty much wasting 7-8 rolls I came to conclusion that it's better exposed and developed at EI200. HP5+ on the other hand excels at EI400, works well at EI200 (albeit with decreased contrast) and pushes nicely at EI800. Developing times for these two films are as different, as final results. So that statement from the seller is funny at best.

The word funny as in "strange" or puzzling may be the kindest description of it Other harsher descriptions of what the seller' statement amounts to may also be appropriate

pentaxuser

Don_ih · Sep 9, 2022

I was going to try this film (I'll try any film and was wondering what this stuff actually is) but shipping bumps the price up too much.
And I think I'm gonna give up spurious film and just buy bulk hp5+ when I need to buy more film. It's the most versatile film for the price.

pentaxuser · Sep 9, 2022

What worries me to an extent is that films appear that are sold as different from the reliable Kodak or Ilford/Kentmere one and it is that statement that they are allegedly different and "new" that seem to make them command prices that seem out of all proportion to what they deliver

Hopefully their sales takes little away from the mainstream film makers'sales. Otherwise it becomes a worrying prospect if these "new" and "different" films were to be the only attraction to film newcomers.

pentaxuser

gone · Sep 10, 2022

If it's Foma 400, I wouldn't recommend EI of 640. The one time I tried an EI of 800 it went badly. He says to use the Foma 400 development times, so it may be that. Foma 400 gave me beautiful negs in F76 Plus at EI 250.

AgX · Sep 10, 2022

And then it would be 1.4x the price of that Foma film at a german online retailer.

Don_ih · Sep 10, 2022

It could be respooled from a 2000 foot roll of Orwo N74. When @Agulliver gets some, he can check out the sprocket holes.

AgX · Sep 10, 2022

Then people in Britain would spare themselves the import hassle and costs.

Agulliver · Sep 11, 2022

I'll report back when I receive the 25 foot roll, and again when I shoot and develop some.

You can shoot Fomapan 400 at 640 but you would need to push process. I've shot it once at 1600 and don't recommend it, as I ended up with very contrasty images but they were usable...just not what I usually look for when shooting at that speed.

Orwo N74...I've shot one 25 foot roll of std 8mm film and actually really liked it....shot and processed at 400 ASA, developed in Microphen and then scanned...I shot a lovely few minutes of movie in a jazz club with it. I can imagine it would work well as a B&W neg camera film. Not sure I would go out of my way to buy it but it's a very good film.

According to an app I have on my phone, Orwo N74+ would want 8 minutes in Microphen at 400ISO, with Fomapan 400 wanting 8:30. Ilford HP5+ would be 6:30 so the development times are quite different. Kentmere 400 would be 8:00 so that's a possibility....

Pigsonboy · Sep 11, 2022

I’ve got film from this site before.
It’s usually old short ends film stock/old full reels spooled into shorter lengths. I suspect it might be Kodak Double X

Agulliver · Sep 14, 2022

Pigsonboy said:
I’ve got film from this site before.
It’s usually old short ends film stock/old full reels spooled into shorter lengths. I suspect it might be Kodak Double X

It is possible that they're hinting at this with the name "Pan XX". It's also possible that they change what's in the film can depending on what they get hold of....though I wonder if they have a fairly reliable source of Kodak XX short ends?

Haven't received mine yet but not worried, the post is a bit delayed right now.

Donald Qualls · Sep 14, 2022

Agulliver said:
I wonder if they have a fairly reliable source of Kodak XX short ends?

Given how relatively trivial is is to respool the 400 foot (or longer) rolls Kodak sells direct/fresh to 100 foot lengths, I'm not sure why they'd buy short ends. The cost per foot is usually close to the same (your main savings lie in not having to buy four hundred or a thousand feet at once), and short ends will never be a "reliable" supply, as they're dependent on someone shooting a film project on 35 mm Double-X.

Agulliver · Sep 15, 2022

Well, it's arrived. I'll try and snip a bit off in the changing bag this evening and maybe load a few frames into a cassette to test. Not sure I am up to much this coming weekend but I may get out and about and test it.

Agulliver · Sep 15, 2022

Here are photos of the can. I'll try putting it into a bulk loader this evening if I get the time.

Exeter Pan XX - what is it?

Agulliver

EXETER PAN XX 400 B&W FRESH BULK 30M x 35mm FAST FILM DEV ILFORD HP5 FOMOPAN 400 | eBay

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