From the linked article:Also this article from last year wasn't a great read considering everything. https://www.insideimaging.com.au/2022/fujifilm-milking-the-market/
This is alarming.
That's also one of the reasons I'm knocking at their door - by sharing what we know about making and using these materials, we can prevent some things from being lost forever. This seems like an opportune moment to do so, since everyone's aware of what's happening and the situation is probably not as commercially sensitive as it used to be two decades ago. I mean, it's pretty clear that by now, the rivalry between Kodak and Fuji of the old days is not much of a business reality anymore.
I once heard in order to have perfect colors from a negative, I have to make a duplication and only then scan. Now it can be different unfortunately with this color :-(
Just knowing what's going on will not prevent some things from being lost forever. You need to buy more of the paper and processing chemicals so the manufacturer has an incentive to continuing making it.
Even now there is a huge fad for scanning enlargements. They do it, for example, in the Polish version of Vogue. I'm absolutely not saying it's true, I'm just wondering if it's true. I enlarge all the time under the enlarger and scan on the drum and do not complainadamlugi - I don't know where you heard that nonsense. It's never been true.
Gosh a lot of unnecessary doom and gloom on this thread. Those of us who actually do optical RA4 color printing know better.
Everything is going to change somewhere down the line. Electric vehicles are arriving already; but lots of people still enjoy riding horses, even around here. One can even look down at the original Tesla plant from certain horse and hiking trails. No need to panic and buy a battery-powered horse; the real ones still work.
Gosh a lot of unnecessary doom and gloom on this thread. Those of us who actually do optical RA4 color printing know better.
Everything is going to change somewhere down the line. Electric vehicles are arriving already; but lots of people still enjoy riding horses, even around here.
Everything is going to change somewhere down the line. Electric vehicles are arriving already; but lots of people still enjoy riding horses, even around here. One can even look down at the original Tesla plant from certain horse and hiking trails. No need to panic and buy a battery-powered horse; the real ones still work.
there are differences between EU and US
Every time something is reproduced, there is some kind of inevitable loss. Maybe they're just doing that for some kind of trendy "look". I never pay attention to fashion nonsense. Let Department Store displays worry about that. In never go in those either.
Every time something is reproduced, there is some kind of inevitable loss.
But when I asked why, this is the answer I got that it is better than a scan.
I agree with you. I have a lot of discussions that develop themselves. I ask them about quality control and they get surprised. I always control the PH, measure stripy ect. Colleagues know it's goodDefine 'better'.
More true to life?
Nicer looking?
By what standard?
You see, that's never specified. People just say "it's better" and leave you with that.
I had virtually the same conversation with someone yesterday. He told me that at the darkroom he does some of his printing, there are fashion photographers printing their proofs directly from negatives to RA4 paper, optically. I told him about the digital crossover issue and of course he was surprised. So I asked him, do you think these fashion people make a point of comparing the actual fabrics they shoot with the prints they make, or do you think they just print the way they do because they prefer how it looks? "Clearly the latter," he said. Well, that's great, isn't it? For them, that's "better". But it's a different flavor of "better" than the engineer who needs to carefully match a real world hue to a printed hue. Comparing those 'betters' only makes sense if you operationalize them. For some reason, that rarely happens.
Can you give us some idea of where your knocking at their door will prevent somethings being lost forever?The story I heard 'on the shop floor' at Fuji wasn't quite as alarming, but it's no secret to anyone that this particular industry has only one direction it's been developing into.
That's also one of the reasons I'm knocking at their door - by sharing what we know about making and using these materials, we can prevent some things from being lost forever.
Can you give us some idea of where your knocking at their door will prevent somethings being lost forever?
In asking this question I take it you mean something being lost for we analogue printers who use enlargers?
Presumably your contact at Fuji accepts that you are representing us here on Photrio
I wonder how many that is?
Not just that; in general. If we don't share and record this kind of information, it literally dies out.
I'm talking about any kind of information as it applies to the use of this paper, but also how it's made. For instance, at some point, nobody will remember that Fuji used to coat materials in a slightly different way than Kodak does. Or why Fuji's paper is blue before you toss it into developer. Or why there's some mottling in certain prints. That a wide range of papers in fact used the exact same set of dyes and only a handful of emulsions. The list is endless. They're the kind of things that we currently don't even realize someone in the future is going to be puzzled over.
You might have noticed that one of the things I also do is carbon transfer and other alt. process prints. You'd be surprised how little we know about e.g. carbon transfer tissue that used to be commercially available a century ago. Nobody ever bothered to document manufacturing processes or recipes, for the most part. Today, carbon printers would certainly be interested (even if only academically) how these materials used to be made back then. The same for a host of other processes. Or perhaps an even better example: the autochrome process. Sure, some people have managed to recreate it, sort of - but most of that has been experimental work relying on very scant notes that left out just about every relevant detail.
I think they're realistic enough to realize that I'm just one guy who at best manages to talk to some other people. If not, I'll be sure to emphasize it. But for them, that might already be worthwhile.
Furthermore, if there's a valid reason and an efficient way to organize it, perhaps they're also willing to engage more directly with some of us. That's the kind of thing I'd like to explore with them - perhaps even more so than the technical questions.
That's one question we're virtually guaranteed to never get an answer to
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