Everyone gets a trophy

[Pieter12]

No, I don't think it does. The reason? It just doesn't matter. There are important things in life - in the world, in your immediate vicinity, and so on - your gripe isn't one of them.

I could just as easily ask why you're insisting on drawing attention to yourself and a superior attitude that is not supported by evidence. What makes you an authority on anything other than complaining?

I have no intent on drawing attention. I am not an authority on anything. Just expressing an opinion. For some that seems to be waving the cat’s rectum I guess.

 

[chuckroast]

I have no intent on drawing attention. I am not an authority on anything. Just expressing an opinion. For some that seems to be waving the cat’s rectum I guess.

In fairness, I don't think that's true in this thread.

It's one thing to say, "I don't like X", which is a statement of personal preference.

It's quite another say, "I think that is objectively crap and I cannot grasp why anyone would make it public." That is a normative statement.

I think what you're hearing from most of us is not hostility, but a gentle nudge to suggest that it is generally a bad idea to use one's opinion as a standard of judgment. That's all.

Go take pictures

 

[Brendan Quirk]

OK, here is an anthology of what I consider to be the better corners of my work over the past 50 years, all scans of silver prints. There are a stinkers in there as well, for reasons that will remain unexplained.

I'm sharing it because (mostly) I like these a lot. Is that sufficient justification in your view? I'm not principally interested in whether you like these, only whether or not "I like these and thought I'd share" is sufficient to share with the class.

Workbook Print Scans - Home

(Oh, and for the record, at least one person I've run into on the Internet- and whom I've never met - thinks the later stuff is complete trash and that I am - and I quote - "a complete fraud" (I assume as a photographer, not as a human being).

You've got it. Not all (but most) to my taste, but the magic is there.

 

[chuckroast]

You've got it. Not all (but most) to my taste, but the magic is there.

Thank you. But at least one person thought it was photographic fraud and thus "crap"


(If you click on an image and hit the 'i' button, you can see what year and month the image was made. I use this to remind myself of an evolving POV.)

 

[Pieter12]

In fairness, I don't think that's true in this thread.

It's one thing to say, "I don't like X", which is a statement of personal preference.

It's quite another say, "I think that is objectively crap and I cannot grasp why anyone would make it public." That is a normative statement.

I think what you're hearing from most of us is not hostility, but a gentle nudge to suggest that it is generally a bad idea to use one's opinion as a standard of judgment. That's all.

Go take pictures

If you read the original post, the only reference to crap is my own work. Others have turned and twisted and misinterpreted that original, although cranky, statement.

 

[gbroadbridge]

People can post whatever they want, just trying to understand the why.

Try posting into some forums a complete piece of crap that you were going to toss in the trash, and be amazed how many folks will rave about it and manage to see all types of meaning in it.

It's an amazing circle jerk out there sometimes.

 

[Vaughn]

Well, if that's your opinion, don't go waving it in my face then.

Perfect! Thanks!

Most people untrained in looking at photographs see and react to the subject, not image quality. Having photographed National Parks and overseas, it is easy to notice that many people treat such photos as a travel show...if they have been there or want to go there, they love the photo(s) no matter how badly composed.

One of my instructors at uni (Thomas Joshua Cooper) stated at the beginning of the class that there were to be no photographs of baby or kittens. I believe he thought of such images as low-hanging fruit and wanted something deeper from us students. I do not believe he had either kids or kittens at the time.

And humans are social story tellers. If it tells a story, a photo does not have to be technically perfect, or even close to be appreciated. My images usually do not have the hand of human in them, as they often become the subject of the photo to most viewers. I am often telling a story about the light and place, and do not want the interchange muddied up with too many other stories.

 

[Don_ih]

Most people untrained in looking at photographs see and react to the subject, not image quality.

And it's reasonable to think that most people new to photography can't really grasp image quality, either.

 

[Milpool]

I don’t know, I often find the response (whether positive or negative) of the viewer “untrained in looking at (insert artform)” more interesting.

OP’s complaint is fine in my books. It’s an opinion and an honest reaction. Good enough. The constructive feedback part, waste-o-time, more or less.

 

[retina_restoration]

For some that seems to be waving the cat’s rectum I guess.

OMG thank you for that phrase! I can't wait to use it. It made me think of Season 1, Episode 8 of Bob's Burgers.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Such people may feel exactly the same about so-called "high art" or abstract photographs. Everyone has their own idea of what they find satisfying in this context.

And, as Robert Heinlein so trenchantly observed, Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. It's not always self evident who is the pig and who is the teacher ...

Speaking of pigs, using Photoshop to save your photo is like putting lipstick on a pig. Another favorite of mine is that you can't get blood from a turnip.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

People can post whatever they want, just trying to understand the why.

I would suggest that new photographers, especially, be brave and post and open themselves to reviews. It's a nice way to learn. Of course some of the reviews may be worse than your photos. Or contradictory. But at least you get to learn what people like. I belonged to photo clubs where reviews of the members' work would be done at the meetings. It was very helpful. Suggestions on how to improve them were made. Before the internet, members would have to bring in prints. Nowadays, we review them digitally on a big TV on the club's front wall.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

The complaint seems to be about crap pictures made with expensive equipment versus just plain crap pictures. Anyway, I don't think constructive feedback really helps much. Maybe a little, but in the end few people who do art, music etc. are very good at it. They either realize that and enjoy it anyway, or they don't realize it, or other combinations of those.

Well, you do learn to divide things into thirds.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

In your opinion. Obviously others disagree.

Besides, there is nothing objective to measure what is "pitiful" or not - that is in the eye of the beholder. You already mentioned that the work isn't technically deficient, such as poor exposure or out of focus, so the only thing left is a subjective opinion.

If it's a picture of a kid or woman, start off your comments with "Cute kid" or "Pretty woman". Obviously, it's someone the photographer knows and cares about. So in the end, the picture is important to them. I still have those BW snapshots of family taken with Kodak box cameras; the ones where family just stand in front of the camera smiling with the zoo's lion cage behind them. They're the best and most popular. No one cares about my colorful sunset photos of the Eiffel Tower.

 

[Chuck1]

OMG thank you for that phrase! I can't wait to use it. It made me think of Season 1, Episode 8 of Bob's Burgers.

Just saw that episode last night

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

OK, here is an anthology of what I consider to be the better corners of my work over the past 50 years, all scans of silver prints. There are a stinkers in there as well, for reasons that will remain unexplained.

I'm sharing it because (mostly) I like these a lot. Is that sufficient justification in your view? I'm not principally interested in whether you like these, only whether or not "I like these and thought I'd share" is sufficient to share with the class.

Workbook Print Scans - Home

(Oh, and for the record, at least one person I've run into on the Internet- and whom I've never met - thinks the later stuff is complete trash and that I am - and I quote - "a complete fraud" (I assume as a photographer, not as a human being).

Nice work.

 

[chuckroast]

Nice work.

Thanks!

I am about 90+ % done with having 8x10 workbook prints across the entire timeline of my photographic life. I started doing this around 2009 and have kept up with it since, but the task now is to finish catching up the old stuff that was never in a workbook. It's been fun exploring and printing negatives that are decades old. I'm certainly not printing everything, just that stuff that moves me. The theory is that I will reduce this further to print "Best Of" as exhibition prints.

Some people may like these, others not so much. But I did them for myself and I like them, hence I enjoy sharing them with others.

(I left some stinkers in because they were part of some experiment with developer, agitation, film, etc. and I want to be able to quickly refer to them.)

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Perfect! Thanks!

Most people untrained in looking at photographs see and react to the subject, not image quality. Having photographed National Parks and overseas, it is easy to notice that many people treat such photos as a travel show...if they have been there or want to go there, they love the photo(s) no matter how badly composed.

One of my instructors at uni (Thomas Joshua Cooper) stated at the beginning of the class that there were to be no photographs of baby or kittens. I believe he thought of such images as low-hanging fruit and wanted something deeper from us students. I do not believe he had either kids or kittens at the time.

And humans are social story tellers. If it tells a story, a photo does not have to be technically perfect, or even close to be appreciated. My images usually do not have the hand of human in them, as they often become the subject of the photo to most viewers. I am often telling a story about the light and place, and do not want the interchange muddied up with too many other stories.

If it inspires, then the photo works, even as art. Not everyone gets hung up with technical issues. I;ve noticed that men focus on technical prowess while women photographers are more concerned with intimacy and feelings in their work.

Thanks!

I am about 90+ % done with having 8x10 workbook prints across the entire timeline of my photographic life. I started doing this around 2009 and have kept up with it since, but the task now is to finish catching up the old stuff that was never in a workbook. It's been fun exploring and printing negatives that are decades old. I'm certainly not printing everything, just that stuff that moves me. The theory is that I will reduce this further to print "Best Of" as exhibition prints.

Some people may like these, others not so much. But I did them for myself and I like them, hence I enjoy sharing them with others.

(I left some stinkers in because they were part of some experiment with developer, agitation, film, etc. and I want to be able to quickly refer to them.)

I've been going through all my pictures, selecting possible ones for making up a personal photo book. Not to be published other than a few copies for family use, gifts, etc.

 

[Vaughn]

If it inspires, then the photo works, even as art. Not everyone gets hung up with technical issues. I;ve noticed that men focus on technical prowess while women photographers are more concerned with intimacy and feelings in their work.
...

You have stated this before, and it has no basis in reality, much like your stated belief that women would be better off in the home and not the workforce. The mere existence of the large number of successful and important women scientists and mathematicians proves that.

Edit to add;

My apology, Allen. We see the world differently and I have intruded ungraciously into yours.

 

[koraks]

Guys, please stay ontopic. The remark about gender differences in relation to art is problematic enough in the way it generalizes a vast domain, but the follow-up is just uncalled for and really not welcome here.

Edit: part of the above admonition was graciously handled by @Vaughn's later edit. Thank you, Vaughn.

 

[Pieter12]

...and we were so close to this becoming a discussion of "is it art?"

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...One of my instructors at uni (Thomas Joshua Cooper) stated at the beginning of the class that there were to be no photographs of baby or kittens. I believe he thought of such images as low-hanging fruit and wanted something deeper from us students. I do not believe he had either kids or kittens at the time...

My instructor wanted no trains or old cars.

 

[Kino]

My instructor wanted no trains or old cars.

I guess that just leaves trees and rocks...

 

[Vaughn]

My instructor wanted no trains or old cars.

Same could be said for ruins and gravestones. Photographs of the old and decaying should be left to the old and decaying, not to young students still worrying about life.

I'll give E.W. this one, seeing he had hit 53 (1939). The locals use to race their jalopies on this beach, this might be one that did not make it back into town. Taken on his trip around California (and the West) with Charis Wilson. Funny, it is often listed as Crescent Beach, British Columbia, but Charis places it in California just 80 miles north of me in Crescent City, where Edward "...found a wrecked car that needed doing and a stump to end all stumps." (California and the West, Wilson and Weston, pp183)

https://www.moma.org/collection/works/50466

 

[Milpool]

I participated in this thread. No trophy though. I’ve failed once again.