Electronic SLRs: Why are there so few repair reports on the web?

[Andreas Thaler]

Well my Nikormat camera is broken. The meter is intermittent. I understand that it is not fixable. It's it?

Of course it can be repaired.

 

[ogtronix]

My electronic SLR nikon N6006 works perfectly, including the shutter, meter, auto and manual settings etc. It's 30 or 35 years old. And although I haven't used it that much, it works perfectly now. If it was to break, I could probably get another one for under a $100. So why would I pay to repair it?

Alot of electronic cameras suffer systematic failures. Sticky magnets and melting rubber bumpers are common - along with the occasional electrolytic capacitor fault, cracked solder joints, and bleeding/ fading LCDs. Not to mention drifting meters and misaligned focusing systems. Trying to find stuff that actually works on the usual websites is an ordeal, and anything still working might not be in just months. It's a real problem with electronic stuff, that they can wake up for a bit to pass an initial check but then start rapidly degrading. Like consider that it'll take a few shutter cycles for a melted bumper to start smearing on the leaves.

For goofing off you can still get cheap and feature-packed cameras to treat as disposable if you shop around and take chances on stuff listed as untested (since nobody's buying weird lithium batteries to see if a £30 thing still works). Prices are continuing to rise on alot of models though, and usually in sudden large jumps. Anything is just a Youtube video away from becoming a cult classic. Plus the increased price of film and processing would make it a shame if the new camera was suffering or develops a fault.

All that is to say; used cameras are a dwindling resource. Less and less of them still function and more and more people want the ones that do.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

You are providing people with a form of entertainment, much as Norm Goldberg once did with his lab reports.

I think the problem with camera repairs is that rewards are not guaranteed, and a good deal of effort may be required before you achieve anything meaningful. And although many people say they want to slow down and feel more connected to the craft of photography, what they really want is a modern camera which looks old, and which can simulate the look of film.

This topic continues to occupy me.

I also wonder how to appeal to a diverse audience with complex topics such as the repair of electronic SLRs.

Starting in 1974, for example, Westdeutscher Rundfunk (WDR) broadcast a 14-part introduction to digital technology for anyone interested in the topic.

Digitaltechnik – eine Einführung – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

At that time, digitalization was just beginning to take hold in everyday life.

In addition to the television reports, a book was published, and there were weekend seminars. The content was in-depth and didactically excellent.

DIGITALTECHNIK - Eine Einführung für Anfänger (Jean Pütz, VDI) : Jean Pütz, Ernst Beckmann, Helmut Groh, Roland Jeschke, Wolfgang Weber : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

DIGITALTECHNIK - Eine Einführung für Anfänger Ein Einführungskurs für das Selbststudium und den Medienverbund Fernsehen - Seminare - LehrbuchDritte,...

archive.org

Unfortunately, only a few episodes have survived, here is the first broadcast (German):




Even with the best preparation, digital technology remains a challenging subject that requires a lot of familiarization. But it was clearly possible to make it accessible to a broad audience at that time.

Without falling into prejudice, my impression is that these days, such topics—and I'm referring to the repair of electronic SLRs—find only a few who want to become active here.

The willingness to work on topics has been replaced by entertaining how-to videos, currently limited to one minute and edited at a breakneck pace.

References to the sources from which one draws are nowhere to be found, nor are any suggestions for further reading. The entire craft of serious intellectual work, as one should learn in university, is no longer relevant to everyday life.

But all this doesn't allow for meaningful development of the topics.

Now you can resign yourself and give up, or you can fight back for the sake of the cause.

And it's not hopeless. When I look at the number of hits on my posts about repairs, the maximum is around 15,000 views. That means there's interest, presumably from outside the web.

And that's why I'm continuing, hoping that others here on PHOTRIO, with their not-so-simple topics, see it that way too.

What I still need to work on is editing my posts. Shorter, clearer, more informative. But I'll never get a second of reading time

 

[Michael Howard]

So THAT'S where Leisure Suit Larry came from...

 

[Andreas Thaler]

So THAT'S where Leisure Suit Larry came from...

Top article on the topic, all respect.

 

[4season]

Even with the best preparation, digital technology remains a challenging subject that requires a lot of familiarization. But it was clearly possible to make it accessible to a broad audience at that time.

In the USA, programs like The Computer Chronicles endured considerably longer than 14 episodes on public TV, and books by Forrest Mims III were widely available through Tandy/Radio Shack stores. But I don't know that I'd consider either to be "mainstream".

Yes, many things can be maintained in working condition if one is willing to devote sufficient resources to the task, but there are limits to what folks are willing to tolerate. In my area, when the vintage European car people get together, certain makes, models, and entire eras are almost completely ignored. Such as water-cooled VW/Porsche, anything Audi, most BMW except for 2002/320/325, any Jaguar that isn't an XKE, most Mercedes Benz except for SL/SLC, any 4-seat Ferrari, etc. But wow, a lot of people have Porsche 911s and 356s, they are the Leica M2/3/4/6 of the automobile world: Easily recognized, super-popular.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

In my area, when the vintage European car people get together, certain makes, models, and entire eras are almost completely ignored. Such as water-cooled VW/Porsche, anything Audi, most BMW except for 2002/320/325, any Jaguar that isn't an XKE, most Mercedes Benz except for SL/SLC, any 4-seat Ferrari, etc. But wow, a lot of people have Porsche 911s and 356s, they are the Leica M2/3/4/6 of the automobile world: Easily recognized, super-popular.

This must be an expensive hobby. The transport costs for an engine block from Europe to the USA alone …

 

[F4U]

The reason that the electronic cameras of the 80's and later have so little repair info is that they worked quite well., At the same time, when they failed they were throwaways. The electronics were proprietary, and replacement parts were not offered but for a short time. Further, even if there were replacement chips today, no ordinary repair people had the equipment to do the solder work. I'm sure there's lots of 80's cameras out there that are as accurate an dependable now as the day they were made. When they do develop a problem, it's a problem only the nearest dumpster can remedy.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I'm sure there's lots of 80's cameras out there that are as accurate an dependable now as the day they were made. When they do develop a problem, it's a problem only the nearest dumpster can remedy.

I have had the opposite experience, see

Photo equipment from the 1980s: Repair projects and recommendations

I would like to bring together a selection of my previous contributions here in the hope that they will help readers with their work or inspire them to get involved in repairs. It is always worth trying to repair something, because if you do nothing, a camera or lens will definitely remain...

www.photrio.com

Electronic SLRs from that time have typical problems that have developed over the decades. Many of them have been fixed, and nothing ends up in the trash since everything can be reused.

It is precisely the prejudice that electronics in older SLRs generally cannot be repaired if problems occur that I am fighting against with deed and word.

 

[F4U]

I have had the opposite experience, see

Photo equipment from the 1980s: Repair projects and recommendations

I would like to bring together a selection of my previous contributions here in the hope that they will help readers with their work or inspire them to get involved in repairs. It is always worth trying to repair something, because if you do nothing, a camera or lens will definitely remain...

www.photrio.com

Electronic SLRs from that time have typical problems that have developed over the decades. Many of them have been fixed, and nothing ends up in the trash since everything can be reused.

It is precisely the prejudice that electronics in older SLRs generally cannot be repaired if problems occur that I am fighting against with deed and word.

Let's take another product. A Tektronics 465 and a 2215. The 465 was 70's technology. The 2215 was 80's. My 2215 still works fine and I still use it because its lighter to drag out and set upon my work bench when I work on a tape recorder. Sometimes it gets quirky, but not too bad My 465 needs an overhaul. The 465 was 100% discreet components. I can still get parts all day long.. The 2215 is light as a feather and has all chips that are not available. When it does konk out, it's dumpster food. I can fix the 465 easily any time I want.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

With the 80s SLRs, you can repair a lot of things, but the limitations are set by the adjustments that only the manufacturer could make. But even there, there are many workarounds. It just depends on how far you want to get involved.

And many "electronic" problems are often purely electromechanical, such as dirty contacts and magnets.

The best example of this is my favorite, the Canon T90, which was considered virtually irreparable by DIY. And it's quite tame once you've familiarized yourself with the available technical documentation.

 

[4season]

This must be an expensive hobby. The transport costs for an engine block from Europe to the USA alone …

No doubt! I enjoy looking and photographing, but I'm not shopping for a money-pit.

 

[Acere]

I'm considering creating a DIY tutorial on this. 100 percent practical, with only the necessary minimum of theory. I'll link practical examples from my project reports.

Would anyone be interested in this?

Or are there better ideas, or criticism?

---

I have to admit, I enjoy writing here, and I'm pleased that the posts are well-read (including by external users), but we could be even more productive if I weren't the only one doing this, most of the time.

Why isn't anyone doing anything about, say, the Canon AE-1, for which there's excellent technical documentation, or the Nikon F4, or the Minolta XD, etc. for which this also applies.

These cameras generate a lot of attention, users praise them in countless video blogs, but no one wants to DIY repair or service them?

When I first saw all your detailed repairs here, I was impressed! I do some basic repairs, mostly lens cleaning and restorations but nothing as in depth as you. I think a YouTube channel would be nice, there's a few and yours would be excellent.

One thing I can opine is that the cost of repairs aren't worth it on many SLR's since you can buy a used one in good shape in some cases for less $$.
But, for those of us who love these old girls its a sentimental journey to an extent.

 

[PurpleCat]

One thing I can opine is that the cost of repairs aren't worth it on many SLR's since you can buy a used one in good shape in some cases for less $$.

It really depends on the camera. The Pentax MZ/ZX line in particular is infamous for the mirror gear breaking to the point it affects pretty much all the bodies ever made unless they were either repaired back in the day or were a later production run using a brass gear, and this means that every single one is a ticking time bomb where sometimes when you insert the battery and hit the shutter button it'll break the mirror gear. On top of that, there are also not a lot of other options for the Pentax KAF mount on film (you're stuck with either the SF/Z/PZ lines, or the *ist). The Pentax forum guys for sure have made ifixit tutorials even on replacing that gear because it's such a problematic camera.

It's also far from the only systematic age issue with an electronic era camera. There's many well documented here (the F4 and T90 come to mind), but also the Minolta Maxxum 7 and the aperture gear and film door latch, the Konica FT-1 and the foam connections rotting out, Nikons with plastic film door latches breaking, Minoltas with rubber grip rot, flex cables breaking on the Konica Big Mini and Minolta 9xi, etc. That's not getting into the issues you'll find with higher priced electronic cameras like the Contax cameras, medium formats, or digital cameras like the Leica M8 and the imaging sensor adhesive where the high resale value makes the cameras profitable to repair.

At a certain point if you want any of these cameras you're going to be stuck with either pricey fixed models, or junk models that can be had for nothing and take forever to sell because there's so many broken ones in the world. So it's worth documenting repairs or how to fix cameras like this because at a certain point, you're going to have to do repairs on these just to have a working F4 with a working aperture lever. On top of that, for numerous reasons repair shops refuse to touch these cameras and don't see the economic value of working on a camera worth only $150 or less.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

When I first saw all your detailed repairs here, I was impressed! I do some basic repairs, mostly lens cleaning and restorations but nothing as in depth as you.

This work is possible because there are excellent instructions and documentation available (SPT Journal, C & C Guides, The Camera Craftsman, manufacturer service manuals). Otherwise, it would be more or less flying blind, especially when disassembling and troubleshooting complex electronic SLRs.

I think a YouTube channel would be nice, there's a few and yours would be excellent.

Thanks!

But I don't think I can offer anything decent here.

Video is an art form in its own right and probably requires more effort than text with photos. Because everything for the audience has to work in one go, and that's rarely the case, so the video would have to be edited.

For this, and for the presentation, it requires skills that I have not yet discovered in myself

 

[Acere]

This work is possible because there are excellent instructions and documentation available (SPT Journal, C & C Guides, The Camera Craftsman, manufacturer service manuals). Otherwise, it would be more or less flying blind, especially when disassembling and troubleshooting complex electronic SLRs.



Thanks!

But I don't think I can offer anything decent here.

Video is an art form in its own right and probably requires more effort than text with photos. Because everything for the audience has to work in one go, and that's rarely the case, so the video would have to be edited.

For this, and for the presentation, it requires skills that I have not yet discovered in myself

Its easier than you think https://www.youtube.com/@FixOldCameras

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Its easier than you think https://www.youtube.com/@FixOldCameras

That's exactly what's difficult, because the videos are excellently made, and the master is confident in his craft.

After I've repaired ten T90s with the same problem, I'll think about it, but then I'd have to deal with video. I'm not familiar with that.

 

[Acere]

That's exactly what's difficult, because the videos are excellently made, and the master is confident in his craft.

After I've repaired ten T90s with the same problem, I'll think about it, but then I'd have to deal with video. I'm not familiar with that.

Its intimidating but you have a lot to offer. I've posted a few and its pretty straight forward. I consider mine pretty crude but helpful. This one has the most views and seems to be the most helpful.

 

[4season]

If/when I get the urge to deal with them, I've got a few zoom/autofocus compact 35 mm cameras in my repair queue, and a couple of them are basically new in box. Can I fix them, and if so, is it a good use of my time? I guess there's one way for me to find out!

 

[vandergus]

Its easier than you think https://www.youtube.com/@FixOldCameras

It is not easier than you think. In fact it's harder than you think. At least if you want to make high quality videos that aren't just talking hands. I made a few and got burnt out on all the editing. I would spend an hour recording something on the work bench, spend 8 hours editing it and end up with a 20 min video. And before that I had to spend many hours just learning how to use the video editing software. Now I stick to iFixit pages, which are less demanding and can be built in a much more piecemeal manner.

 

[fdonadio]

Maybe I’m going off-topic here, but I have the same problem as @vandergus. I shoot lots of video on trips, and promise myself I will edit them to have an audiovisual record — as a souvenir, and also to show/send to friends and family — but I give up in the editing process. It’s tedious and time-consuming.

OTOH, one of my nephews can edit videos with CapCut on his smartphone in a matter of minutes! With a nice soundtrack, transitions and all the bells and whistles.

I guess the saying is true: your mileage may vary.

 

[Acere]

It is not easier than you think. In fact it's harder than you think. At least if you want to make high quality videos that aren't just talking hands. I made a few and got burnt out on all the editing. I would spend an hour recording something on the work bench, spend 8 hours editing it and end up with a 20 min video. And before that I had to spend many hours just learning how to use the video editing software. Now I stick to iFixit pages, which are less demanding and can be built in a much more piecemeal manner.

Sounds like video is not for you

 

[Andreas Thaler]

I'm skeptical as to whether video is the right medium for long and complex repair projects. This is of course not a judgment

I'll use a to me familiar example again. Let's assume the top cover of a Canon T90 needs to be removed. Of course, this is only part of the following work, which involves removing the mirror box to reach the faulty shutter.

The video camera remains fixed in one shot because I'm working alone and don't have a free hand for filming.

Demonstrating how to unscrew the five screws in the cover is no problem; just put on a screwdriver and it's done.

Things get more difficult with the rotary switch for the eyepiece shutter, which is screwed in with a glued-on rubber cap. To show how to remove this, you need a close-up. And therefore someone to do it.

Then some cables on the confusing mainboard have to be desoldered, same thing.

All of this is adequately described in three photos, which don't show the actual process, but excerpts. The only important thing is that the reader understands the necessary processes. So I take detailed shots, giving hints in a accompanying text. The readers can orient themselves and doesn't have to navigate the video.

I find this clearer and more efficient for both my audience and myself.

Showing how the circuit board connections in the T90 are desoldered and soldered, however, would be something for a video. It's not that easy, and it's just as difficult to describe. A video would be better in this case.

My conclusion: text with photos plus video for key points.

Whether this appeals to a wider audience remains to be seen. Some people prefer reading, others watch videos.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

My fear is that documenting our DIY repair work is becoming increasingly difficult. The audience's willingness to engage in longer reading seems to be dwindling. The trend is toward visual, moving, ultra-short, entertaining content. TikTok says it all.

But how am I supposed to fit my Canon T90 into it?

It's only enough to show me throwing it against the wall because I screwed up.

I think this could be a success on TikTok, etc.

 

[vandergus]

I'm skeptical as to whether video is the right medium for long and complex repair projects. This is of course not a judgment

I'll use a to me familiar example again. Let's assume the top cover of a Canon T90 needs to be removed. Of course, this is only part of the following work, which involves removing the mirror box to reach the faulty shutter.

The video camera remains fixed in one shot because I'm working alone and don't have a free hand for filming.

Demonstrating how to unscrew the five screws in the cover is no problem; just put on a screwdriver and it's done.

Things get more difficult with the rotary switch for the eyepiece shutter, which is screwed in with a glued-on rubber cap. To show how to remove this, you need a close-up. And therefore someone to do it.

Then some cables on the confusing mainboard have to be desoldered, same thing.

All of this is adequately described in three photos, which don't show the actual process, but excerpts. The only important thing is that the reader understands the necessary processes. So I take detailed shots, giving hints in a accompanying text. The readers can orient themselves and doesn't have to navigate the video.

I find this clearer and more efficient for both my audience and myself.

Showing how the circuit board connections in the T90 are desoldered and soldered, however, would be something for a video. It's not that easy, and it's just as difficult to describe. A video would be better in this case.

My conclusion: text with photos plus video for key points.

Whether this appeals to a wider audience remains to be seen. Some people prefer reading, others watch videos.

You're right about all of these difficulties. It's why simple single camera videos often fall short. But after watching some watchmaking videos with multiple camera angles, I decided to try something similar with camera repair. I set up an over-the shoulder wide shot, a front view for hands only shots, and a top down view with a macro lens for tight shots on the area I was working. I would have them all running throughout the repair so I didn't have to actively fiddle with them in real time. I think I've shared it here before, but you can see my video series on repairing the Pentax MZ-3 here.



I was satisfied with the finished product, but as I said before, editing all the video feeds into a single coherent narrative of the repair is not a simple task.

The place that I think the text+photo format struggles is describing how mechanisms work and move. In Part 3 of that video series, I take some time to examine the aperture control mechanism and show how it works. This would have been much more difficult in text+photos. iFixit gives users the ability to upload short video clips, so I have used that when possible. It's still quite limited (max 30 sec run time) but it can be useful for something like how the mirror mechanism is supposed to work so users can check that it was put back together properly.

Pentax LX Mirror Box Mechanism Disassembly

The rubber dampers that cause slow or stuck mirrors are located in the mirror box mechanism. Fully disassembling the mirror box, cleaning problem...

www.ifixit.com

The other thing that text+photo misses is technique. How was the technician actually able to reattach or reassemble the mechanism. Most are straightforward but some require a very particular order or coming in at an unintuitive angle. Even something as simple as how to reattach a spring can be helpful to see.



Still, text+photos is sufficient for most jobs, so that's what I'm sticking to for now.