EIR hints?
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AgX: So why isn't everyone cutting up Aerial EIR and cross processing in B&W developer to get to the much revered, but now defunct, HIE look? (well, cost and practicality aside 
)
Especially since it would have the same high speed as HIE, considering the references of 100 and 200 ISO versus the very slow speeds of replacements like Efke and Ilford SPX.
) Especially since it would have the same high speed as HIE, considering the references of 100 and 200 ISO versus the very slow speeds of replacements like Efke and Ilford SPX.
AgX, the person behind this website:
http://www.tarquinius.de/
offers cut down Aerial EIR for $25 or 17 euro per 120 roll... so about $2 dollar a shot... Although that is not cheap, it's not completely "prohibitive" either, especially if you're used to 4x5 negative prices.
But of course I don't know how reliable that offer or the website is...
I've talked with the guy, he seems legit. Lots of people are using him on Flickr.
I think it's good quality. If it sucks, you can always get your money back, right?
Cross processing EIR in BW chems and expecting HIE shows a complete misunderstanding of how slide film works.
EIR has the colors mapped differently than typical slide film and maps the color magenta to IR reflectivity. If you know a way to isolate the silver that is mapped to only the magenta, I would like to hear about it.
EIR has the colors mapped differently than typical slide film and maps the color magenta to IR reflectivity. If you know a way to isolate the silver that is mapped to only the magenta, I would like to hear about it.
Well, I guess if you wanted to try get rich by ripping off some people on the internet, there are more efficient ways than advertising an exotic photographic product like Aerial EIR...
Cross processing EIR in BW chems and expecting HIE shows a complete misunderstanding of how slide film works.
EIR has the colors mapped differently than typical slide film and maps the color magenta to IR reflectivity. If you know a way to isolate the silver that is mapped to only the magenta, I would like to hear about it.
You may be right that cross processing EIR in BW developer will not lead to an image similar to HIE, but in the end, does that matter? Even HIE is sensitive to other wavelengths than IR only, that is why one uses filters, so extracting just the IR sensitive magenta layer, might lead to an even bigger mismatch with a classic HIE image.
It's the differences in sensitivity to varying wavelengths compared to ordinary BW film that makes use of HIE and EIR interesting, and that's exactly the reason photographers are using it...
It does remain an interesting question how EIR looks both cross processed in C41 and cross processed in BW developer...
Here is an example of a 4x5 pinhole image based on an accidentally BW cross processed Ektachrome 100G, sepia and selenium toned:
Cross processing EIR in BW chems and expecting HIE shows a complete misunderstanding of how slide film works.
EIR has the colors mapped differently than typical slide film and maps the color magenta to IR reflectivity. If you know a way to isolate the silver that is mapped to only the magenta, I would like to hear about it.
If you develop an exposed colour slide film containing couplers (as EIR does) in a developer which does not interact with those couplers you will get a silver image like that of a standard BW film.
If you have got a colour slide film with one of its layers sensitized to the near IR, expose through an IR filter and then develop it as above you will gain a silver image of that IR exposure.
Nothing to do with any magenta...
If you would take a common colour negative film the situation would be different as it typically yields coloured couplers.
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Thank you for the insight.
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EIR colour test.
This is EIR processed in C-41. The frame was shot at 30th sec@f5.6. The light was dusk. this image was shot using a yellow Hoya filter.
I should note the lady in the red jacket on the path in the background, her jacket was actually jet black. It is common for black clothing to turn red etc
~Steve
The Lighthouse Lab
This is EIR processed in C-41. The frame was shot at 30th sec@f5.6. The light was dusk. this image was shot using a yellow Hoya filter.
I should note the lady in the red jacket on the path in the background, her jacket was actually jet black. It is common for black clothing to turn red etc
~Steve
The Lighthouse Lab
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Now I'm confused, because that page appears to agree with my original idea of red/yellow filter - which was roundly beaten down over 6 pages...
Dear god.
We need someone to shoot a picture with a yellow filter, while holding up a sign that says "yellow filter," then one with the red, and so on...
I'm extremely confused, too.
We need someone to shoot a picture with a yellow filter, while holding up a sign that says "yellow filter," then one with the red, and so on...
I'm extremely confused, too.
Use of a yellow filter with EIR film gives a proper 3 color image, use of a red filter gives a 2 color image.
The layers are Green, Red and IR sensitive. Use of a red filter passes only Red and IR thus 2 colors. The correct filter is therefore yellow. For B&W IR films, either yellow or red may be used. Red is used to emphasize the IR content.
PE
The layers are Green, Red and IR sensitive. Use of a red filter passes only Red and IR thus 2 colors. The correct filter is therefore yellow. For B&W IR films, either yellow or red may be used. Red is used to emphasize the IR content.
PE
As in contrast to common colour films the EIR has no filter layers incorporated, all its three layers are bluesensitive (due to intrinsic sensitivity of the halide).
Thus at least a yellow filter has be used to absorb blue and to avoid an image which is dominated by magenta or violett in most circumstances.
However it has been shown that there can be a pronounced difference between the effect of yellow and orange filtration in many circumstances.
Thus at least a yellow filter has be used to absorb blue and to avoid an image which is dominated by magenta or violett in most circumstances.
However it has been shown that there can be a pronounced difference between the effect of yellow and orange filtration in many circumstances.
But the pictures on Flickr that were made with a yellow or orange filter seem to just be too yellow or have a yellow cast, whereas the ones done with a red filter look really interesting.
:|
But Stephen's image above looks nothing like the ones that the Flickr guy did, and look really good.
See my posted pictures- filter info *is* accurate
Use what filtration works for you, but I am telling you that no filtration exposes all layers as AgX says, due to the lack of a yellow filter layer. The film is entirely blue sensitive and thus the minimum filter usable is yellow! The next is orange, then red, the deep red, but red and deep red will not expose the film entirely properly as green light will be missing. Therefore, one layer is not exposed at all with a red filter.
PE
PE
Had you all ever considered that the EIR was accidentally fogged. Many processors use a dim green safelight, or IR goggles. This will badly distort EIR.
Under proper exposure, the sky is deep blue and foliage is red. Human skin is a bit blue. I used 1 75' roll of 9" Aerial Ektachrome each month in the AF and we used a dark yellow filter. This eliminated all UV and blue light and left us with Green, Red and IR.
PE
Under proper exposure, the sky is deep blue and foliage is red. Human skin is a bit blue. I used 1 75' roll of 9" Aerial Ektachrome each month in the AF and we used a dark yellow filter. This eliminated all UV and blue light and left us with Green, Red and IR.
PE
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test
This is EIR processed in C-41. The frame was shot at 30th sec@f5.6. The light was dusk. this image was shot using a yellow Hoya filter.
I should note the lady in the red jacket on the path in the background, her jacket was actually jet black. It is common for black clothing to turn red etc
This is EIR processed in C-41. The frame was shot at 30th sec@f5.6. The light was dusk. this image was shot using a yellow Hoya filter.
I should note the lady in the red jacket on the path in the background, her jacket was actually jet black. It is common for black clothing to turn red etc
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Lovely shot Stephen.
You know, it's a shame we are having this wonderfully productive discussion now, when stocks of EIR are rapidly dwindling. (sigh)
Cheers,
You know, it's a shame we are having this wonderfully productive discussion now, when stocks of EIR are rapidly dwindling. (sigh)
Cheers,
Toffle, someone is cutting down Aerial Ektachrome, into 120 and sheet format sizes. He is going to start doing 35mm soon.
Ron, is EIR/Aerial Ektachrome (the 400asa stuff) as sensative as HIE was? It could be a great replacement, if processed as B&W (or as color and printed as B&W) if it is essentially a color HIE, considering it is still being made.
Ron, is EIR/Aerial Ektachrome (the 400asa stuff) as sensative as HIE was? It could be a great replacement, if processed as B&W (or as color and printed as B&W) if it is essentially a color HIE, considering it is still being made.
EIR and Aerial Ektachrome are functionally identical. In fact, the sale of the "amateur" product or consumer product was probably driven by the sales to the military and to forensic labs. The roll films were therefore driven by the original military and forest service products used in aircraft.
As for speed, IDK. I have not used the military product for years.
PE
As for speed, IDK. I have not used the military product for years.
PE
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