ECN2 processing

[lamerko]

Having tested it several times against C41, it makes perfect sense to me as I get significantly better color rendition this way when wet printing. When scanning, the crossover is also less pronounced compared to C41 development, but it's less relevant there since it can be mostly fixed. There's a comparison on my blog somewhere that illustrates it along with adjustment curves that show what's going on.

Increasing the time makes sense when maintaining the temperature. It makes no sense if you LOWER the temperature and INCREASE the time….

 

[koraks]

It makes no sense if you LOWER the temperature and INCREASE the time….

I agree with that. I interpreted his situation as developing at 38C to begin with and then extending the development time. Not dropping temperature and increasing time, which indeed would be an odd decision.

 

[angah316]

Hi, im back again ..

Does anyone here familliar with these color on the negative (1st photo) , blueish and grey ..

But when i place it on the white light .. looks ok ..

I havent scan it yet ..

My ecn process

Prebath soaking with baking soda+warm
Water , to remove the remjet


CD 39c at 3:30 , rinse tap water
Bleach 38c at 3” , rinse tap water
fix at 3” , rinse tap water …

Final rinse ..

 

[koraks]

Looks like insufficient fixing. In fact, it looks like it was t fixed at all!

 

[foc]

Looks like insufficient fixing. In fact, it looks like it was t fixed at all!

+1

 

[psfred]

This is a late response, but the odd looking film needs to be re-bleached and re-fixed, the original processing did not remove the silver image nor the residual silver halide, and the presence of silver halide will produce a very very blue image -- it absorbs blue light and hence produces a distorted color image upon inverting it. There may also be a collodial silver layer that absorbs blue light to prevent blue (or ultraviolet) light from interferring with the red and green sensitive layers that must be bleached and removed by fixing, again if this isn't done properly you get blue casts.

Hand processing of either C41 or ECN-2 requires inverting the tank every 15 seconds, in processing machines there is a burst of nitrogen every 15 seconds in the tank AND the film is moving through the solution. Not inverting the tank will cause weak and off color shadows.

ECN-2 films should always be processed at 41C for 3.00 minutes whatever chemistry you are using, you will get very flat (low contrast) images if you don't. Far better to use the actual ECN-2 chemistry too. Color film works by using a developing agent that, when oxidized by reducing silver halides to metallic silver, then reacts with the dye forming chemicals embedded in tiny resin beads in the film to produce colored dyes. C41 and ECN-2 use a different developer, and so the dyes formed during developement are different and have different absorbance spectra, resulting in color shifts that cannot easily be compensated for. C41 developer will also produce a lower contrast image when used with ECN-2 films even at the correct temperature. Dyes produced by CD-4 in ECN-2 films are also not as stable as those produced by CD-3, and not using the fomaldehyde stabilizing reagent in the final wash for older ECN-2 films will result in color shifts with age -- the formaldehyde makes the cyan dye coupler inert, without it the un-used cyan dye can develop a color NOT cyan and shift the color balance.

The ECN-2 color developer is quite simple and at least in the US all the components are readily available. So are inexpensive precision scales. However, I strongly recommend using nitrile gloves while working with it, CD-3 is a sensitizer and it is possible to become quite allergic to it.

 

[koraks]

ECN-2 films should always be processed at 41C for 3.00 minutes whatever chemistry you are using, you will get very flat (low contrast) images if you don't.

I go even further and develop for around 3m45s in ECN2 developer at 41C to obtain a gamma that's suitable for optical RA4 printing. Otherwise the negatives are, like you say, too flat.
3m15s in C41 at 38C also gives a usable gradient due to the higher activity of the CD4 developer, but I find the crossover objectionable, so prefer ECN2.

Do you have a source for the statements about the dyes and stability? I'd love to read some more about it.

 

[psfred]

Photo Engineer discussed this issue many years ago in this forum, might or might not be able to find it. CD-3 and CD-4 are different chemicals (although related in structure) and will form dyes with different absorption spectra if used in place of one another. Similar, but not the same, and probably not as stable.

Plenty of comparisons out there, and from personal experience with remjet free respooled movie film (remember Seattle Film Works?) C-41 developed ECN-2 films are hard to scan and print pretty low contrast. I should go back and find those images and see what I can do with modern scanning equipment.

 

[halfaman]

I have scanned and optically printed Vison3 500T developed in C-41 chemicals at 38° C. I find contrast Ok compared to other C-41 films and by no means low or flat. The major problem of using C-41 chemistry in ECN-2 films is color crossover.

 

[koraks]

Photo Engineer discussed this issue many years ago

I know, I corresponded for a while with him about ECN2 for still photography. Most of what he said is in the public space on the forum as well. It boiled down to that he could not share much in the way of details either because he wasn't involved in it. The couple of noteworthy things he did divulge have become common knowledge by now; his presence was very effective in that regard, but we need to realize that his knowledge had limits just the same. Hence my questions also about the acetic acid bleach (he couldn't offer a solid reason for that one either).

Plenty of comparisons out there

Yes. Mine included. Both optical prints and scans.

This is why I ask questions whenever someone comes around who suggests they know more about this, but so far it's slim pickings. I'm fairly well aware of what has been said here on Photrio/APUG, photo.net etc but that's just scratching the surface really.