Do all Pentax K1000s have a somewhat rough film advance?

[Howie1922]

Hey everyone!

I am repairing a K1000 SE for a friend. He has stated that the film advance is rough, and he has experienced the film breaking on him a couple of times.

I tried some dummy film and did have the film break on me when inserting the leader into the take up spool. To fix this, I decided to take a razor blade to the take up spool and make some chamfers on some of the edges. I feel like this helped.

I had 3-4 practice K1000s laying around in my parts bin, and after advancing film through each of them I feel like my friend’s K1000 has the smoothest advance, although I agree it does feel a touch gritty. I tried an acing through a Pentax MX and that was much smoother.

I had one practice K1000 torn apart already, so I tried removing the wind shaft and lubricating the slip spring, but I feel like that did not improve anything. I also polished the interface between the gear that the film advance ratchet sits on and the plate that is underneath it, and that did not improve things. I tried all the gears dry and all the gears lubricated and neither of those changed the feel. For the lubricant I’m using a moly paste.

After all of this, I am curious if others feel that the K1000 inherently has a bit of a rougher film advance? To me it feels a little gritty, like gears are meshing together in a slightly off way, or they are rotating on a surface with some pressure.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for this I could try or check? I feel like I’ve tried everything. I haven’t lubricated the curtain gears as those are supposed to be dry I believe. I’ve been following the National Camera Repair course procedure.

I’m looking forward to a good discussion on this topic!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have four and they are all smooth, including my ME's, and Spotmatics.

 

[vandergus]

Hey everyone!

I am repairing a K1000 SE for a friend. He has stated that the film advance is rough, and he has experienced the film breaking on him a couple of times.

I tried some dummy film and did have the film break on me when inserting the leader into the take up spool. To fix this, I decided to take a razor blade to the take up spool and make some chamfers on some of the edges. I feel like this helped.

I had 3-4 practice K1000s laying around in my parts bin, and after advancing film through each of them I feel like my friend’s K1000 has the smoothest advance, although I agree it does feel a touch gritty. I tried an acing through a Pentax MX and that was much smoother.

I had one practice K1000 torn apart already, so I tried removing the wind shaft and lubricating the slip spring, but I feel like that did not improve anything. I also polished the interface between the gear that the film advance ratchet sits on and the plate that is underneath it, and that did not improve things. I tried all the gears dry and all the gears lubricated and neither of those changed the feel. For the lubricant I’m using a moly paste.

After all of this, I am curious if others feel that the K1000 inherently has a bit of a rougher film advance? To me it feels a little gritty, like gears are meshing together in a slightly off way, or they are rotating on a surface with some pressure.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for this I could try or check? I feel like I’ve tried everything. I haven’t lubricated the curtain gears as those are supposed to be dry I believe. I’ve been following the National Camera Repair course procedure.

I’m looking forward to a good discussion on this topic!

It sounds like you're doing everything right in terms of servicing the advance mechanism. I wouldn't do it any different.

One thought is to try to isolate different parts of the camera that the advance lever is driving. For example, when I service a K1000, the advance action feels much different when the mirror box is out vs when it is in. The charging of the mirror changes the feel significantly. So you can take out the mirror box, but also load film and see what it feels like. Do a bunch of A to B to C comparisons and you might be able to isolate the mechanism that is causing the rough feel.

I believe that the National Repair guide does recommend lubricating the wind gears, but I don't think that will affect the wind feel. It's more for reducing wear and getting more consistent performance in the shutter speeds.

 

[ic-racer]

Like what vandergus mentions above, I notice an extra 'catch' or 'irregularity' on the windup of Nikon F I repair and it is from charging the mirrorbox.

 

[logan2z]

I don't have a K1000, but the film advance on my KXs and Spotmatic is very smooth.

 

[Chuck1]

Not that it's relevant but I have an olympus om4t that makes me cringe when I wind it.
I don't use a motor drive on that one

 

[Cholentpot]

I have 2 K1000's, an Asahi and a later one. They aren't the smoothest of advances but aren't the worst either.

 

[Howie1922]

It sounds like you're doing everything right in terms of servicing the advance mechanism. I wouldn't do it any different.

One thought is to try to isolate different parts of the camera that the advance lever is driving. For example, when I service a K1000, the advance action feels much different when the mirror box is out vs when it is in. The charging of the mirror changes the feel significantly. So you can take out the mirror box, but also load film and see what it feels like. Do a bunch of A to B to C comparisons and you might be able to isolate the mechanism that is causing the rough feel.

I believe that the National Repair guide does recommend lubricating the wind gears, but I don't think that will affect the wind feel. It's more for reducing wear and getting more consistent performance in the shutter speeds.

Good idea, I can try that out and see how it goes. I do currently have the mirror box isolated, I removed the mirror charging arm and it’s still slightly gritty. I’ve also tried with and without film and it feels slight worse with film (probably due to the films friction).

Right now the advance is only advancing the film and charging the shutter. I think I’ll see if I can isolate those two somehow.

 

[Howie1922]

Also, thanks for all the input everybody! Seems like some examples are good, and some are fine. Doesn’t seem like there are any really bad ones.

 

[OAPOli]

Yes the Spotmatic, K1000 and H/S series have a similar winding feel. Smooth until the end of the stroke where there is additional resistance due to the mirror charging.

Can you clarify how the film is breaking? It seems odd that it would break right where it enters the take-up spool.

 

[Howie1922]

Yes the Spotmatic, K1000 and H/S series have a similar winding feel. Smooth until the end of the stroke where there is additional resistance due to the mirror charging.

Can you clarify how the film is breaking? It seems odd that it would break right where it enters the take-up spool.

My friend stated that it broke in two different ways, at the beginning of the roll and in the middle of the roll. He didn't give me much context beyond that. He is an avid film photographer (uses an M6 and a Minolta X-700 very regularly), so I don't think mis-management of the film is the issue.

When it happened to me, it broke against the left side of the take up spool opening, circled in red in the picture below. The film I was using was old and expired, so I originally thought it was just brittle film causing the break. The left side of the take up spool was pretty sharp, so I'm hoping the chamfers I added help with this. When I load film, I take up all the slack in the roll, which puts more pressure on the left side of the take up spool. My theory is that is what is causing the breaks, not the advance.

For the record, I think his camera is fine. Just not sure how his film broke in the past. I don't think opening up his camera will accomplish anything. I shutter tested it as well and it has one of the more accurate shutters that I have tested. No capping!

 

[OAPOli]

@Howie1922 it's hard to fix something if you don't know what's wrong Surely your test film must have been quite brittle?

Braking film usually happens when the user forces it at the end of the roll. Or the sprocket holes get ripped out if the take-up spool clutch is too tight. That happens early in the roll.

 

[BrianShaw]

If the film broke, check for fragments that might be lodged in the rollers. That film chamber, though, looks filthy…

 

[Howie1922]

Following up on this thread. I ended up just taking the bottom plate off and lubricating the idler gears a bit since I couldn't get rid of the slightly rough stroke. I gave it back to him and he thought it felt better, so that's a win!