Developing time for FB paper

[eli griggs]

Wash agents don't last long either.

True, but even though I throw it out after a while, never using it for longer than a week, I've never seen it grow fungus or mold.

 

[Pieter12]

True, but even though I throw it out after a while, never using it for longer than a week, I've never seen it grow fungus or mold.

I certainly have. As well as crystals forming in the bottom of the concentrate container after a while.

 

[koraks]

Wash aid is sodium sulfite. The concentrate can indeed crystallize out, but upon heating the solution, most/all of it will likely go back into solution.
It's not particularly prone to growing fungus, and in fact, sulfite inhibits bacterial growth (but not necessarily all forms of biological life such as algae etc.).
Dilute solutions of sulfite generally don't keep well because the sulfite oxidizes with oxygen from the air or dissolved oxygen in the water into sulfate.

 

[L Gebhardt]

I still do not understand Maximum black. I appreciate you guys trying to explain it to me but I absolutely do not understand. Am I supposed to make the blacks in my image reach maximum black? Like you and someone described maximum black is the blackest with no detail in the blacks at all right? Why would I want my shadows to be maximum black? Or any blacks in the image at all to be maximum black? What does maximum black mean? And what's the clear border of the film? The sprockets? This is getting frustrating I've even browsed online other than here on Photrio and I'm still not understanding. Do I want maximum black in my prints? Or no?

To much of this thread is focused on maximum black. That’s because you asked for developing time and it is related to getting the paper fully developed. Paper is fully developed when it can produce maximum black. For now I suggest you develop your prints for a fixed time of 2 minutes for fiber based and 1 minute for resin coated. Then adjust exposure time to get the best print you can. Once you have a nice print make a second one with the same exposure but develop it for an extra 30 seconds and compare the two. If they look the same your first developing time is correct for your darkroom, and you know you can leave the print in the developer for a bit of time and not worry about pulling it out at exactly a set time.

There are no rules for how a print should look, but you want to be in control. Generally speaking a print looks best to most people if it has areas of paper white and areas of black. Make a few prints and create a new thread where you post a few pictures of them. We can help you troubleshoot them then, but the important thing is to get printing.

Also consider learning on RC paper since it’s cheaper and faster to print on. It also washes quicker and dries flat.

 

[Don_ih]

Maximum black: Is just black. Imagine there is to be a large black letter on your print

In order to reproduce it, you need enough exposure and development time. Too little expose, the letter is not black - it's grey. Too little development, or worn out developer, the black ends up grey.

This isn't a matter of details in the shadows but just about attaining black when something is supposed to be black.

Where details in the shadows comes in is: if you expose for longer than the minimum amount of time to get max black, you will start to lose shadow details. Black doesn't get blacker but grey does.

 

[Roger Cole]

I have found the "standard" two minutes simply too short. You can get good results at 2 minutes, but almost all (if not all, all that I've tried anyway) FB papers seem to get richer to some extent with longer development. I standardized on 3 minutes and will go longer before shorter.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have found the "standard" two minutes simply too short. You can get good results at 2 minutes, but almost all (if not all, all that I've tried anyway) FB papers seem to get richer to some extent with longer development. I standardized on 3 minutes and will go longer before shorter.

I mentioned 2 minutes because that is what is recommended for Dektol and I have adopted it as my standard so that I do not develop by eye and have consistent results from print to print. I then adjust the aperture and exposure time for darker results. Your standard of 3 minutes serves the same purpose.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Yes I do Ilford Multigrade Filters. What is the grade on papers? Say I'm using a grade 2 paper and then I add a grade 2 filter. Does that turn it to a grade 4 filter look?

Most unfiltered variable contrast papers are about a grade 2. If you add a grade 2 filter, you'll probably see very little difference, or you might. A fun and easy test to try out is to make test strips without a filter, and then with all the different filters. Then lay all the strips down beside each other in order. You will see a big difference in contrast from filter 00 (low contrast) to 5 (high contrast). You will also see that more print exposure will be necessary for some of the filters.

 

[Roger Cole]

The biggest difference between unfiltered variable contrast paper and using a grade 2 filter is that it will usually be much faster unfiltered. The filters are designed to, at least somewhat, result in matching speed from grade 0 to 3.5 and half that speed for grades 4-5. Of course this can only be true for one specific tone (usually a midtone) since the contrast changes with each different filter. I find it useful, if not exact.

 

[xkaes]

Most unfiltered variable contrast papers are about a grade 2. If you add a grade 2 filter, you'll probably see very little difference, or you might. A fun and easy test to try out is to make test strips without a filter, and then with all the different filters. Then lay all the strips down beside each other in order. You will see a big difference in contrast from filter 00 (low contrast) to 5 (high contrast). You will also see that more print exposure will be necessary for some of the filters.

The biggest difference between unfiltered variable contrast paper and using a grade 2 filter is that it will usually be much faster unfiltered. The filters are designed to, at least somewhat, result in matching speed from grade 0 to 3.5 and half that speed for grades 4-5. Of course this can only be true for one specific tone (usually a midtone) since the contrast changes with each different filter. I find it useful, if not exact.

I've run these tests for Ilford filters for a negative of a gray card. Although the exposures are mostly very close, some of them are noticeably off -- too weak/light or too strong/dark. I created a matrix/table/chart so that I can change from one filter to another and add in a correction factor (old time * filter factor) -- which is usually small, very easily.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, when one first learns about playing a piano, they find out where the very highest and lowest note key is at each extreme end of the scale. But does that mean that every successful tune mandatorily has to include each of these extremes? No.

 

[faberryman]

Well, when one first learns about playing a piano, they find out where the very highest and lowest note key is at each extreme end of the scale. But does that mean that every successful tune mandatorily has to include each of these extremes? No.

Can anyone suggest some circumstances under which you would want to underdevelop or overdevelop a print, i.e. develop under or over the time required to develop to completion.

 

[xkaes]

Let's call that "desperation development".

 

[MattKing]

Can anyone suggest some circumstances under which you would want to underdevelop or overdevelop a print, i.e. develop under or over the time required to develop to completion.

The minimum time to achieve what is effectively "completion" is what we generally refer to as the "minimum time for maximum black". One can extend that time significantly, and obtain virtually the same results, although some papers will show a slight change in tone - warm to cool or vice versa.
However, extending the time a reasonable amount can have practical benefits, because it makes it easier to ensure print to print consistency. That applies particularly if one is developing multiple prints at the same time - shuffling them through the developer - such as when one is printing for a print exchange or making prints to be given as family gifts.
Extending the time also effectively protects against the effects of gradual developer exhaustion during a printing session.

 

[MattKing]

I've run these tests for Ilford filters for a negative of a gray card. Although the exposures are mostly very close, some of them are noticeably off -- too weak/light or too strong/dark. I created a matrix/table/chart so that I can change from one filter to another and add in a correction factor (old time * filter factor) -- which is usually small, very easily.

A grey card is probably not the tone that the filters are speed matched to. Most likely they are speed matched to a lighter tone - something like a Zone VII, which correspond to a relatively light skinned Caucasian skin tone.

 

[faberryman]

The minimum time to achieve what is effectively "completion" is what we generally refer to as the "minimum time for maximum black". One can extend that time significantly, and obtain virtually the same results, although some papers will show a slight change in tone - warm to cool or vice versa.
However, extending the time a reasonable amount can have practical benefits, because it makes it easier to ensure print to print consistency. That applies particularly if one is developing multiple prints at the same time - shuffling them through the developer - such as when one is printing for a print exchange or making prints to be given as family gifts.
Extending the time also effectively protects against the effects of gradual developer exhaustion during a printing session.

Any benefits to extending the time of development beyond development to completion other than to even out development of multiple prints in the same tray or when using depleted developer?

 

[MattKing]

Any benefits to extending the time of development beyond development to completion other than to even out development of multiple prints in the same tray or when using depleted developer?

It is not when "using depleted developer". It is to ensure consistency over a long printing session, by protecting against the effects of gradual reduction of activity, which inevitably happens unless you use print developer one shot.

 

[xkaes]

A grey card is probably not the tone that the filters are speed matched to. Most likely they are speed matched to a lighter tone - something like a Zone VII, which correspond to a relatively light skinned Caucasian skin tone.

You might be right. That used some "standard". Mine is a gray card because I want to keep that as my standard. I do not want my mid-tone to get lighter or darker as I change filters.

 

[xkaes]

Any benefits to extending the time of development beyond development to completion other than to even out development of multiple prints in the same tray or when using depleted developer?

If you happen to love darkroom work -- like I do -- it gives you an excuse to stay in there longer.

 

[MattKing]

You might be right. That used some "standard". Mine is a gray card because I want to keep that as my standard. I do not want my mid-tone to get lighter or darker as I change filters.

I believe @Nicholas Lindan has written on what the standard is.
You can use a grey card to create the negative. You just need to make the print a different tone than the grey card.

 

[faberryman]

If you happen to love darkroom work -- like I do -- it gives you an excuse to stay in there longer.

I like darkroom work too, but I tend to lose focus after three or four hours. If I am running a lot of paper through the developer, which is rare for me, I mix fresh developer rather than rely on extending the development time.

 

[xkaes]

I believe @Nicholas Lindan has written on what the standard is.
You can use a grey card to create the negative. You just need to make the print a different tone than the grey card.

When I photograph a gray card as a test, I want to create a print that matches it exactly.

 

[xkaes]

I like darkroom work too, but I tend to lose focus after three or four hours. If I am running a lot of paper through the developer, which is rare for me, I mix fresh developer rather than rely on extending the development time.

I know. Some people love the smell of acetic acid in the morning. I don't mind it. I guess I've just gotten used to it. And despite my good ventilation system, that pulls the fumes away from me, I use tubes which means every print gets fresh chemicals, I use a lot less chemical, and it forces me to process each print exactly the same. No "pulling" or "prolonging" allowed.

 

[DREW WILEY]

You don't want to test reproduce a gray card per se, but a representative reflective GRAY SCALE, with a wide range all the way between black and white, for sake of learning and calibration purposes. Of course, that will include a middle gray section equivalent to a gray card within it.

As per previous comments about old graded papers - they did in fact differ quite a bit from one another in terms of what Grade 2 or Grade 3 meant. There was nothing standardized about that.

 

[GregY]

I like darkroom work too, but I tend to lose focus after three or four hours. If I am running a lot of paper through the developer, which is rare for me, I mix fresh developer rather than rely on extending the development time.

Yes... I also mix fresh developer under these conditions.