Dektol Dilemma

[cpubrp]

Had a bad batch of Dektol (like many others). Contacted Kodak Alaris this past January. Sent them an email requesting replacemet of the packages I purchased. Just like the responses others have received from Sino Promise regarding the Xtol fiasco, I was told they would be replaced by mid-February. Here we are first week of March. Nothing. Sent them a follow-up email of when could I expect the arrival of the replacements. Nothing. At this point I don't expect to receive a response or the replacements. We need the likes of George Eastman to set them straight. What a way to run a railroad!

 

[ic-racer]

What was wrong? Can we see an example?

 

[removedacct1]

The bad batch(es) of Dektol turned dark brown (think demerara sugar color) in the packages, before mixing with water.

 

[removed account4]

hi Bruce
don't forget sometimes these days international shipments take way-longer than expected. I hate to make this suggestion because it has nothing to do with your question and getting reimbursed (via chemistry) for your bad batch, but you might look into buying a digital scale from balances.com or eBay or amazon and raw chemicals from someplace ( like artcraft, or formulary or bostick and Sullivan, or amazon ) and mix your own from scratch. it really doesn't take too long to weigh out and the ingredients are readily available ( potassium bromide, sodium sulfite, metol hydroquinone, washing soda and ... ) , and that way you know you aren't getting a bad batch... if you add glycin into your recipe ( like with ansco 125 or 130 ) you will have a developer that lasts a very very long time. I had ansco 130 last over a year in a partially filled 1gallon bottle of stock solution. Glycin costs a little bit but in the end its like magic.

good luck with your situation!
John

 

[halfaman]

The "brown Dektol" issue has appeared already in photrio: "This is due to a non-photo active impurity. This has no impact on product performance."

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-dektol-looks-like-root-beer.174530/#post-2270122

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

This could be a chance for other companies to gain clients. If I were Ilford, I would offer a bottle of free paper developer if someone sent in an empty package of Dektol with the right batch number.

 

[cpubrp]

What was wrong? Can we see an example?

Here's images of what the unmixed amd mixed looked like.

 

[cpubrp]

The "brown Dektol" issue has appeared already in photrio: "This is due to a non-photo active impurity. This has no impact on product performance."

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-dektol-looks-like-root-beer.174530/#post-2270122

You're correct. It has appeared here and elsewhere. I can even forgive them for a glitch in manufacturing. It happens to most brands at one time or another. As a professional I've had to reshoot for a client because of a mistake I made. However, my dissatisfaction now is with the lack of concern to respond to the customer. It doesn't bode well to ignore a reasonable follow up inquiry as to the status of the replacement. I just think it reflects badly on a company that was once very good in the past regarding customer service. Remember Kodak reps?

 

[cpubrp]

hi Bruce
don't forget sometimes these days international shipments take way-longer than expected. I hate to make this suggestion because it has nothing to do with your question and getting reimbursed (via chemistry) for your bad batch, but you might look into buying a digital scale from balances.com or eBay or amazon and raw chemicals from someplace ( like artcraft, or formulary or bostick and Sullivan, or amazon ) and mix your own from scratch. it really doesn't take too long to weigh out and the ingredients are readily available ( potassium bromide, sodium sulfite, metol hydroquinone, washing soda and ... ) , and that way you know you aren't getting a bad batch... if you add glycin into your recipe ( like with ansco 125 or 130 ) you will have a developer that lasts a very very long time. I had ansco 130 last over a year in a partially filled 1gallon bottle of stock solution. Glycin costs a little bit but in the end its like magic.

good luck with your situation!
John

Thanks John. I'll look into mixing my own soup, so to speak.

 

[removed account4]

Thanks John. I'll look into mixing my own soup, so to speak.

Hey Bruce. you're welcome. .. no worries..
I have found in the end self made developers to be more reliable seeing they are mixed on the spot.
... in the thread linked to there is a.great recipe using teaspoons to measure too
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-dektol-looks-like-root-beer.174530/#post-2270198
I was bummed / sorry to hear about client trouble ... reminds me of when I had 2 different problems years back...
1 was back when tmax developer hit the shelves, there were 2 different kinds and I didn't know what to use for hanger processing of sheet film. I called EK who me to use the wrong version OOPS... and what made matters worse was them not knowing I could remedy my problem with one of their own product ( LOL! ) they told me to toss my negatives (a ton of them). I had to contact local legend Paul krott ( sprint photo chemistry ) for help. Such nice people.
The other time was a few years later when I had a couple of wonky developing hanger that marked my negatives.. had to reshoot that job.. was a bummer.. but at least I started to shuffle in trays after that ( silver lining ) and never looked back.
OH .. if you don't want to mix your own, I'd use sprint paper developer is great stuff, liquid, easy to mix and they will ship it to you ! ( they are the best ! )

Don’t forget to have fun!
John

 

[urnem57]

Ok. So Kodak made a mistake and offered to rectify the situation. Over a month ago was when the replacement products were supposed to have been delivered. Complete silence on their part. That’s no way to run a business or to regain my trust. A simple email explaining the delay would be the right thing to do. If they are banking on the brand loyalty that this company once had (50 years in my case) that train left the station a long time ago.

 

[Brendan Quirk]

I just used brown Dektol all day today - it performed with no problems.

 

[ic-racer]

The bad batch(es) of Dektol turned dark brown (think demerara sugar color) in the packages, before mixing with water.

Dektol is not a clear solution, in fact it actually looks brown to me. Do the prints turn brown now or what is the problem?

 

[urnem57]

In the 50 years I have used Dektol, it’s never been brown.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I just used brown Dektol all day today - it performed with no problems.

I've been working my through the batch of black coffee colored Dektol that I mixed up in December. It still works fine.

The product alert I saw about the color didn't mention anything about a replacement being made available, so I didn't ask.

 

[ic-racer]

You're correct. It has appeared here and elsewhere. I can even forgive them for a glitch in manufacturing. It happens to most brands at one time or another. As a professional I've had to reshoot for a client because of a mistake I made. However, my dissatisfaction now is with the lack of concern to respond to the customer. It doesn't bode well to ignore a reasonable follow up inquiry as to the status of the replacement. I just think it reflects badly on a company that was once very good in the past regarding customer service. Remember Kodak reps?

Again, what is going on with your prints. Are they brown? Can we see the prints you sent to Kodak, I'm curious as to what this thread is about or what I'm to look out for as long time a Dektol user.

 

[Wayne]

I didn't see where prints were sent to Kodak. There doesn't seem to be a problem with how the bad batches work so it must be an esthetic issue, or a solution looking for a problem. In that case

Kodak D-72 Print Developer
Metric Spoons and Ounces
Water (125 deg. F) 500 ml.
Metol (or "Elon") 3 gm.
Sodium sulfite, anhydrous 45 gm.
Hydroquinone 12 gm.
Sodium carbonate, monohydrated 80 gm.
Potassium bromide, anhydrous 2 gm
Cold water to make 1 liter

Dilute 1 part D-72 to 2 parts water for use. This formula makes a print developer similar (if not indistinguishable) to Dektol.

http://www.afterness.com/kod_d72.html

 

[cpubrp]

I appreciate everyone's comments and concern, thank you. However, some have replied to my original post with the idea that I was complaining about the Dektol not performing as it should. And of those, have pointed out they have used it with the resulting brown color and had been able to get adequate prints. I never got to the printing stage because my Dektol was so dense in color that I couldn't judge the print image as it was developing (see photos on previous thread for dark color). In short, you couldn't see the print through the Dektol. Everyone has their own method of print processing. Although I'm a "time and temperature" type, when it comes to printing, I like to be able at least to discern the first traces of an image. I'm also well aware that Dektol always mixed with a slight brown tone. To my knowledge no "in date" paper developer (powder or liquid) either past or present has had this dark a color immediately after it was mixed. Even exhusted Dektol never got this dark in color before I discarded it. I'll go back to my original post. It is the lack of communication on the part of Kodak Alaris or Sino Promise or whoever is responsible, to at least acknowledge with some kind of reply to a customer. They have yet to respond to my follow up inquiry of when I could expect delivery of the replacement Dektol.

The dark color and lack of quality control in addition to customer disengagement is unacceptable to me as a professional. My clients expect professional results from me, and rightfully so, and I expect professional products and behavoir from my vendors and manufacturers who guarantee their products from defects, Kodak included. My days of accepting mediocracy ended when I took the leap from amateur photographer to professional photographer nearly 45 years ago.

 

[guillermo alvarez]

I've been working my through the batch of black coffee colored Dektol that I mixed up in December. It still works fine.

The product alert I saw about the color didn't mention anything about a replacement being made available, so I didn't ask.

Hi! I bought two packages of Dektol around 5 months ago, but I still had some of the old "good" chemistry to finish before I run into this problem last week.
As the notice from Kodak-Alaris says that it does not have an impact on the end result, I put up with the disgusting colour and used it.
I must say I saw a slight tan colouring of the paper - very apparent comparing it to the photos developed with the old developer (same batch of Ilford MGV Pearl). Is someone also noticing this colouring?
That is for me a NO GO and a complete failure on the side of Alaris. I have decided to quit using their products at all... but: what are the alternatives?
thanks!

 

[mshchem]

In the 50 years I have used Dektol, it’s never been brown.

Me either. I have seen a friend use 30 year old bags of Dektol that the developing agents, hydroquinone and metol had partially oxidized. Solution was same color of brown. It still develops paper. I wouldn't have used it.
Brown MQ developers are going bad. These developing agents were originally derived from coal tar, the reaction can go both ways. From whence it came to coal tar it returns.

Asking a customer to accept something like this is a steaming load of horse crap.

Buy Ilford Bromophen it's bullet proof and 5 liter bag will make 20 liters working solution.

Watching the unraveling of these products is sad. Like watching a disaster movie.

 

[guillermo alvarez]

Me either. I have seen a friend use 30 year old bags of Dektol that the developing agents, hydroquinone and metol had partially oxidized. Solution was same color of brown. It still develops paper. I wouldn't have used it.
Brown MQ developers are going bad. These developing agents were originally derived from coal tar, the reaction can go both ways. From whence it came to coal tar it returns.

Asking a customer to accept something like this is a steaming load of horse crap.

Buy Ilford Bromophen it's bullet proof and 5 liter bag will make 20 liters working solution.

Watching the unraveling of these products is sad. Like watching a disaster movie.

thanks! you also replied my to question.
i am buying right now two boxes of Bromophen from fotoimpex.de

 

[urnem57]

That’s good to know about The Bromophen. Thanks!

 

[focus_on_infinity]

Hi! I bought two packages of Dektol around 5 months ago, but I still had some of the old "good" chemistry to finish before I run into this problem last week.
As the notice from Kodak-Alaris says that it does not have an impact on the end result, I put up with the disgusting colour and used it.
I must say I saw a slight tan colouring of the paper - very apparent comparing it to the photos developed with the old developer (same batch of Ilford MGV Pearl). Is someone also noticing this colouring?
That is for me a NO GO and a complete failure on the side of Alaris. I have decided to quit using their products at all... but: what are the alternatives?
thanks!

I'm new to priting, so maybe I just don't know what to expect. My cool, glossy papers are all bright white compared to my warm pearl paper. I interpreted that to be a difference in the paper alone, but maybe not. I'm using all Ilford MG RC.

 

[mshchem]

I'm new to priting, so maybe I just don't know what to expect. My cool, glossy papers are all bright white compared to my warm pearl paper. I interpreted that to be a difference in the paper alone, but maybe not. I'm using all Ilford MG RC.

That's most likely the paper base tints. Warmtone papers usually have a warmer base. Ilford would have it in the data sheet.

 

[MattKing]

I'm new to priting, so maybe I just don't know what to expect. My cool, glossy papers are all bright white compared to my warm pearl paper. I interpreted that to be a difference in the paper alone, but maybe not. I'm using all Ilford MG RC.

Check to make sure that your glossy paper isn't the cooltone paper, and the pearl isn't the warm tone paper.
As I understand it, there may also be a slight difference in tone between the former MGIV and the very recently introduced MG (V).
Finally, if your viewing light is warm, it may be the case that a pearl paper will look slightly warmer than the more reflective glossy.