DDX or D76??

[RattyMouse]

Ratty says "never" to replenishment and that's fine for him. Me? I say, "Viva La Xtol-R" ! JohnW

Just to be clear, I never tell anyone not to replenish. I only state what I do myself. I'd rather slit my throat than replenish. Not in a hundred million years will I ever replenish. But that's just me. I won't tell anyone they are wrong for doing so.

 

[mikepry]

Now Ratty Mouse tell us again about how you feel about replenishing but do t hold back! lmao!

 

[Adrian Bacon]

This is my method of using Xtol-R almost to the letter. The only difference is that my working solution is store in a larger 1 gallon amber jug. For people that bitch about mixing chemicals and such this is the best thing next to one-shot developers like DDX. Me? I have never minded playing chemist, but some folks do. Several years ago I bought two bottles of DDX and used those with great results. The only negative I saw with DDX was cost. After using DDX I had read here that some folks thought DDX and Xtol were very close in end results. Well, that left me wanting to try Xtol and I'm very glad I did. I was as happy with my HP5+ negatives souped in Xtol as I was with DDX. Then I read here "again" something about Replenishment of Xtol and how it actually might/was better than Xtol one shot. That's where I'm at now and plan on remaining. I really could not be happier with a film developer. Ratty says "never" to replenishment and that's fine for him. Me? I say, "Viva La Xtol-R" ! JohnW

I’ve been considering going up to a 2 liter bottle for working solution. I’ve found the 1 liter works, but is pretty sensitive to replenishment errors like accidentally putting 70ml in with a 135-24, or putting 70ml in, then at the last minute putting 2 rolls in the tank and forgetting to put an additional 70ml in before topping off.

That sort of thing doesn’t happen that frequently, but I’m a human and it does happen. A 2 or 2.5 liter bottle will buffer and smooth that out quite a bit.

That being said, when it does happen, the 1L bottle does recover really quickly as you’re replacing nearly a 1/10 of the bottle with every roll of 135-36. Just correct the replenishment error and within 2-3 rolls it’s back to normal.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Just to be clear, I never tell anyone not to replenish. I only state what I do myself. I'd rather slit my throat than replenish. Not in a hundred million years will I ever replenish. But that's just me. I won't tell anyone they are wrong for doing so.

Ratty,
Whoops! That statement I wrote can be interpreted two way. My meaning of it is that "YOU" say no to replenish. I did not mean that you are telling others not to. JohnW

 

[RattyMouse]

Ratty,
Whoops! That statement I wrote can be interpreted two way. My meaning of it is that "YOU" say no to replenish. I did not mean that you are telling others not to. JohnW

No worries. I just wanted to make it 100% clear. Very few people other than myself have a hatred for replenishment so strong that no known language can accurately describe it.

 

[pbromaghin]

I used to only mix up a partial bag too. Now I just mix the whole thing up and put it in a wine bag in a box. It’s air tight and lasts a very long time. When it starts to get low, mix up another couple gallons and put it in the bag.

After PE corrected me (it's like getting yelled at by somebody else's dad), I now mix up a gallon and store in 4 1-qt data bottles, squeezed till the fluid gets right to top before capping.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

After PE corrected me (it's like getting yelled at by somebody else's dad), I now mix up a gallon and store in 4 1-qt data bottles, squeezed till the fluid gets right to top before capping.

PE isn’t bad unless you’re a turd to him, but even then he just gets a little sharp. I like to think of it as getting a correct tuneup by one of the team mechanics.

I did the multiple bottle thing for a pretty long time and never really liked it, then I discovered the astropaq wine bag in a box. You can get them brand new in a couple different capacities. I get the biggest one (it’s 15 or 16 liters, can’t remember off the top of my head). They also have a refill/bag transfer accessory.

It has been nothing but great and I highly recommend it. It’s a little cash to start, but once you start using it, it’s a dream.

 

[pentaxuser]

I did the multiple bottle thing for a pretty long time and never really liked it, then I discovered the astropaq wine bag in a box. You can get them brand new in a couple different capacities. I get the biggest one (it’s 15 or 16 liters, can’t remember off the top of my head). They also have a refill/bag transfer accessory.

It has been nothing but great and I highly recommend it. It’s a little cash to start, but once you start using it, it’s a dream.

I use emptied and cleaned winebags so in essence the same thing and have been convinced of their value for many years but we will never convince all of the benefits but I applaud your effort to do so.

pentaxuser

 

[John Wiegerink]

I’ve been considering going up to a 2 liter bottle for working solution. I’ve found the 1 liter works, but is pretty sensitive to replenishment errors like accidentally putting 70ml in with a 135-24, or putting 70ml in, then at the last minute putting 2 rolls in the tank and forgetting to put an additional 70ml in before topping off.

That sort of thing doesn’t happen that frequently, but I’m a human and it does happen. A 2 or 2.5 liter bottle will buffer and smooth that out quite a bit.

That being said, when it does happen, the 1L bottle does recover really quickly as you’re replacing nearly a 1/10 of the bottle with every roll of 135-36. Just correct the replenishment error and within 2-3 rolls it’s back to normal.

That was my reasoning for using the 1 gallon jug for the working solution. I felt that the larger volume was less likely to fluctuate over time. My batch is going on 3yrs old and works as good as new and is so simple it's not funny. The only problem I have is when it comes time to dump the developer. I was so used to running one-shot that I catch myself wanting to dump the just used Xtol down the drain instead of back in the jug where it belongs. If I haven't developed any film for a month or so I will pull off 90ml from the working solution jug and put 90ml stock/replenisher back in just to be on the safe side. I think if Ratty tried it the way we do and got the end results that we do or at least I do, he might just think differently. Of course there are some folks that that still think the world is flat and you're not going to ever change their minds. JohnW

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Very few people other than myself have a hatred for replenishment so strong that no known language can accurately describe it.

Why do you hate it so much? I'm not being snide, I'm genuinely curious and trying to learn.

 

[Adrian Bacon]

That was my reasoning for using the 1 gallon jug for the working solution. I felt that the larger volume was less likely to fluctuate over time. My batch is going on 3yrs old and works as good as new and is so simple it's not funny. The only problem I have is when it comes time to dump the developer. I was so used to running one-shot that I catch myself wanting to dump the just used Xtol down the drain instead of back in the jug where it belongs. If I haven't developed any film for a month or so I will pull off 90ml from the working solution jug and put 90ml stock/replenisher back in just to be on the safe side. I think if Ratty tried it the way we do and got the end results that we do or at least I do, he might just think differently. Of course there are some folks that that still think the world is flat and you're not going to ever change their minds. JohnW

I’m a little leary of a whole gallon for the working solution. You could be really off on something and not start to notice it until your working solution is far enough out of spec that you’d have to start over. 1L is is small enough that it’s really sensitive. You know you messed up the last roll when you do the next roll. I’d say it’s marginally too small.

2 or 2.5 liters feels like enough cushion. The challenge would transitioning to the larger volume of working solution without totally upsetting your current working solution volume.

If it were me, I’d likely immediately move to the bigger bottle, run a bunch of throwaway rolls and keep the replenishing at 70ml per roll. After about 14 rolls the new bottle would be about full as I’d have been dumping all of the used developer back in along with the 70ml of new developer.

From there, I guess I’d run another 5-6 rolls like I normally would to give it a chance to stabilize then do some contrast checking rolls or control strips to see where it’s at and adjust from there.

It seems that that is a logical thing to do if I were to actually go to a larger working solution bottle.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

That’s assuming BH sources from the US. Roberts isn’t going to accept orders from them unless they go through the new account process with them. Ilford can’t control if a seller is going to get through the proper channels to get their product.

I’m a little guy and had no problem going through the new account process and started getting product right away. If BH doesn’t do the same, it’s not Ilford’s fault. If BH doesn’t have a bunch of Ilford product, I’d say it’s BHs fault, not Ilford’s fault.

this is all good reason to mix your own processing chemicals from bulk.

 

[RattyMouse]

Why do you hate it so much? I'm not being snide, I'm genuinely curious and trying to learn.

Trust me, you can't learn from me on this. It's not worth going into and will do nothing but degrade this forum if I vented on my incredibly brazen hatred of replenishment.

 

[pbromaghin]

this is all good reason to mix your own processing chemicals from bulk.

Ralph, how would one get started on this?

 

[jim appleyard]

Ralph, how would one get started on this?

Here's a good start: https://unblinkingeye.com

There are formulae, dev times and some good articles on lots of things.

 

[pbromaghin]

Using the d-76 formula from unblinking eye

Distilled Water (125 degrees F) . . . . . . . 750 ml
Metol . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2.5 g
Sodium Sulfite (Anhydrous) . . . . . . . . . . 100 g
Borax . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 g
Cold Water to make . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 ltr

and checking ebay for prices of the powders, it comes to about $5.50/gallon.

 

[pbromaghin]

Hmm, interesting. From the price of 500g of Hydroquinone at the first place that pops up, 15g adds about $1 to the price of a gallon.

 

[pbromaghin]

Right, not with D-76 at $6.95 for a gallon mix at B&H. The advantage would need to lie elsewhere.

 

[Rudeofus]

The whole discussion about developer price is mostly pointless as long as it is so much cheaper than most photographic films you can buy fresh. Self mixing D-76 is not an end by itself, but a good starting point for folks who want to delve deeper into the home brew realm, as this developer is easy to mix, fairly robust with respect to mixing errors, and consists of a few relatively non-toxic and easily available compounds.

 

[Anon Ymous]

I don't think home brewing is cheaper than using packaged product, at least with Kodak D-76.

Right, not with D-76 at $6.95 for a gallon mix at B&H. The advantage would need to lie elsewhere.

Depending on your source of raw chemicals, D76 can be made at home cheaper than buying the ready made thing. Right now, a litre of D76d costs me less than 1,1€, with calgon and the extra boric acid included in the price. The cost difference isn't that much, that's for sure, but there are many advantages in home brewing:

1) The choice to mix whatever small quantity you are likely going to need, without having to mix a US gallon, or 5l at once.
2) Some of us live in places where nothing is available an we need to mail order everything. It's just easier to gather the typical raw chemicals and mix your developer whenever you need.
3) You can have fresh solutions all the time.

The whole discussion about developer price is mostly pointless as long as it is so much cheaper than most photographic films you can buy fresh. Self mixing D-76 is not an end by itself, but a good starting point for folks who want to delve deeper into the home brew realm, ...

4) Yes, delving deeper. The choices of not readily available developers that can be mixed is enough of an incentive IMHO. And then it gets even worse. You just entertain the thought of home brewing C41 and E6 and... you end up having a large stash of raw chemicals.

 

[pbromaghin]

<delete everything>

The post that this entry was responding to has been deleted, so it looked like I was giving Anon Yomous a very snide response. That is not so.

 

[Trask]

I used to only mix up a partial bag too. Now I just mix the whole thing up and put it in a wine bag in a box. It’s air tight and lasts a very long time. When it starts to get low, mix up another couple gallons and put it in the bag.

That being said, I don’t do much D76 as of late. Largely switched over to replenished XTOL. I make up the 5 liters, and put it in a wine bag, and keep a 1 liter Amber glass bottle as my working solution. For every roll of 135-36 I put 70ml from the wine bag in the bottle then top the bottle off with what I just developed with. For 135-24 it’s 56ml per roll. When the wine bag solution gets low, mix up another 5L and put it in the bag. Piece of cake.

I can certainly understand why some people don’t want to replenish, and they should do what works for them, however in my experience, XTOL is one of the easiest systems to replenish and Kodak’s datasheet for it is excellent.

Thank you for laying this out. I was always wondering how someone replenished a developer in a wine bag. Now I see that the trick is to keep the replenisher in the wine bag and, as you do, have a working solution of developer in a bottle. I’m running replenished UFG in a two liter bottle, with argon wine preserver gas to keep it from oxidizing. I do wish I could keep everything in a wine bag, if only there were a way to replenish into the bag.

 

[nimajneb]

D-76 goes bad over time. HC-110 does not.

yeah, I like HC-110. I just finished a bottle of HC-110 that I've been using since Nov 2016, it even turned orange . I like that you can mix how much you need and don't need to store a working/stock solution like you do with powder developers.

 

[RattyMouse]

yeah, I like HC-110. I just finished a bottle of HC-110 that I've been using since Nov 2016, it even turned orange . I like that you can mix how much you need and don't need to store a working/stock solution like you do with powder developers.

I'm on the last quarter of a bottle of HC-110 and it is very dark orange with lots of solid bits sticking to the side. It still works perfectly. It's an amazing developer that is extremely cost effective.

 

[mikepry]

PE isn’t bad unless you’re a turd to him, but even then he just gets a little sharp. I like to think of it as getting a correct tuneup by one of the team mechanics.

I did the multiple bottle thing for a pretty long time and never really liked it, then I discovered the astropaq wine bag in a box. You can get them brand new in a couple different capacities. I get the biggest one (it’s 15 or 16 liters, can’t remember off the top of my head). They also have a refill/bag transfer accessory.

It has been nothing but great and I highly recommend it. It’s a little cash to start, but once you start using it, it’s a dream.

Hi Adrian. Say, are you using the Astropaq clear bags that go into the box or the stand alone opaque ones with holes at the top for fingers? Is that accessory the u shaped plastic stand? I'm really liking these and just may pull the trigger. I don't want to mess with a bunch of different bottles. Thanks!