Current experience with X-ray scanners - May 2022

[Nikon 2]

OK, that seems to be CT for sure, also going by the fact that you can leave your electronics in the bag.

I just watched the Instagram thing that Lina Bessanova assembled with her experiments with CT and xray. She used the CT scanners at Amsterdam Airport and sure enough those aren't 'film-safe' (she calls them 'pure evil' and 'evil incarnate').

Anyway, my experience earlier this year with xray damage on 250-speed film has put me off of further plans to travel with film. I'll shoot digital next time we fly. It's just not worth it anymore for me, until some EU-wide regulation comes into effect that entitles people to hand checks.

 

[Individual One]

Back when I did that kind of thing (working, I mean) I was at a place that was working on gate monitoring system for traces of explosive vapours. Interesting technology and perfect for terrorists to train on. In the prototype lab we had an actual airport x-ray machine to integrate into the system and generally fool around with. I wish now that I had taken the opportunity to run films through it and see if they got fogged at normal settings. We ran everything else we could think of through it. The thing was, if there was something we could not see through we could turn the machine up ridiculously high until it would zap through all kinds of stuff. It had no problem seeing through about 10mm of aluminum, imaging the suspicious dense object inside a box, and out the other side through another 10mm of aluminum to the sensor. So, while a bag for film would attenuate x-rays, if it aroused the curiosity of the operator they could certainly turn it up high enough to fog film while imaging the bag's contents.
Bruce

 

[Nikon 2]

Back when I did that kind of thing (working, I mean) I was at a place that was working on gate monitoring system for traces of explosive vapours. Interesting technology and perfect for terrorists to train on. In the prototype lab we had an actual airport x-ray machine to integrate into the system and generally fool around with. I wish now that I had taken the opportunity to run films through it and see if they got fogged at normal settings. We ran everything else we could think of through it. The thing was, if there was something we could not see through we could turn the machine up ridiculously high until it would zap through all kinds of stuff. It had no problem seeing through about 10mm of aluminum, imaging the suspicious dense object inside a box, and out the other side through another 10mm of aluminum to the sensor. So, while a bag for film would attenuate x-rays, if it aroused the curiosity of the operator they could certainly turn it up high enough to fog film while imaging the bag's contents.
Bruce

That’s why they made digital cameras…!

 

[wiltw]

Another CT scanner

and its newer, smaller little brother

In an article dated April 2023, https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/rele...-procure-additional-ct-x-ray-scanners-airport
" The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced the award of three orders for a combined total value of up to $1.3 billion for Computed Tomography (CT) scanners to include up to 426 base, 359 mid-size, and 429 full-size units, if all options are exercised, for deployment across TSA checkpoints starting Summer 2023....There are approximately 634 CT units currently installed, and installations continue at TSA checkpoints across the country." (US)

 

[Nikon 2]

Another CT scanner

and its newer, smaller little brother

In an article dated April 2023, https://www.tsa.gov/news/press/rele...-procure-additional-ct-x-ray-scanners-airport
" The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced the award of three orders for a combined total value of up to $1.3 billion for Computed Tomography (CT) scanners to include up to 426 base, 359 mid-size, and 429 full-size units, if all options are exercised, for deployment across TSA checkpoints starting Summer 2023....There are approximately 634 CT units currently installed, and installations continue at TSA checkpoints across the country." (US)

And the sales of digital cameras increases…!

 

[koraks]

And the sales of digital cameras increases…!

Yeah. Not really.

 

[Nikon 2]

Yeah. Not really.

Why do you think they are called Smartphones?
They out smarted everyone…!

 

[Neofito]

I am packing for my christmas holidays at home. Is about 2 xrays in airports and 2 on trains (in spain they always xray everything). Should be fine for my fomapan 400 bulk loaded rolls? or should I ask for hand check? the airports are Berlin-Madrid, which as far as I know, are still X-Ray

 

[wiltw]

I am packing for my christmas holidays at home. Is about 2 xrays in airports and 2 on trains (in spain they always xray everything). Should be fine for my fomapan 400 bulk loaded rolls? or should I ask for hand check? the airports are Berlin-Madrid, which as far as I know, are still X-Ray

X-ray machines at airports have been in use over 40 years, and film <ISO 1600 is relatively safe for multiple passes thru the gate Security X-ray machines. I have, during business and leisure trips over past decades, left film in my bags for multiple X-ray passes, without damage. Fuji and Kodak published tests proving damage free x-ray exposure, but Security in US had adopted a willingness to 'hand inspect' when request; International airports were not always so compliant...Heathrow was one of the most notorious for ignoring hand inspection request...EVERY trip I had thru Heathrow the hand inspection request was ignored, for decades!

The issue NOW is the increased utilization (adopted in recent years) of CT Scanners at gate Security going to airport gates, to increase passenger throughput because laptops and tablets can be left inside carryon bags. CT has been known for damaging film, (particularly the checked bag scanners that have also been in use for decades) and even Heathrow has adopted a new compliance with hand inspection requests! What is still puzzling is when the Security CT apparently leaves film undamaged, rather than consistently fogging the CT scanned film.

 

[DWThomas]

What is still puzzling is when the Security CT apparently leaves film undamaged, rather than consistently fogging the CT scanned film.

Obviously no one is likely to say, but I sometimes wonder if not every object is scanned. They are likely more thorough now, but in the mid-1990s on a flight to the deep south I remember walking through one of the magnetometer loops and noticing as I stumbled through that a cable coming out of the bottom of the big loop was laying on the floor disconnected! I believe I've seen stats that cargo scanning operates on way less than 100% of cargo. I suppose they can argue knowing it could happen is likely to deter many attempts.

 

[koraks]

Obviously no one is likely to say, but I sometimes wonder if not every object is scanned.

When you walk past the scanner and look back, you generally get a good look at the scanner operator's station including xray/CT data. Sure enough, the display is continuous. Nothing is skipped.

 

[wiltw]

Obviously no one is likely to say, but I sometimes wonder if not every object is scanned. They are likely more thorough now, but in the mid-1990s on a flight to the deep south I remember walking through one of the magnetometer loops and noticing as I stumbled through that a cable coming out of the bottom of the big loop was laying on the floor disconnected! I believe I've seen stats that cargo scanning operates on way less than 100% of cargo. I suppose they can argue knowing it could happen is likely to deter many attempts.

I have speculated that every bag has an X-ray (single plane) which is film safe; but a bag that has anything that arouses need for a better look, the CT mode is used (a full series of X-rays used to form 3-D image with software ability to assess for characteristics of explosive content) and the suspicious bag gets the film-damaging CT cumulative exposures.

 

[Agulliver]

They certainly scan every bag, at least at every airport I've been to. As @koraks says you can often glance at the screen. What they won't tell you usually is what all the colours on the screen mean. Sometimes suspicion is aroused by SLR lenses, I believe due to all the glass. Anything that arouses suspicion is likely to result in a second scan at increased intensity, or a hand inspection of your bag. Which is why the lead lined film bags are often bad news, they just zap harder.

The latest new CT scanner is quite compact and could be mistaken for a regular X-ray scanner. That's a concern. We do need the various airport authorities to agree on how to handle photo film.

Currently in the USA, hand inspection has been permitted for a long time and it seems quite normal for hand inspection requests to be granted for any reason including film. Several reports, including my own from 13 months ago, paint a picture of at least major US airports including in their signage whether the scanners are film safe, and what to do with film. This is excellent and shows they have noticed.

In the UK, civil airports are under the umbrella of the Department for Transport which has listened to Kodak and Ilford and issued instructions to all passenger airports to accept requests for hand inspection of film where CT scanners are installed. The trick is knowing this. It's not publicised.

Other popular destinations such as the EU, Japan, Australia don't seem to have done anything yet. Didn't we have a report about a couple of Middle East airports basically not knowing about film?

In the UK, there is a gradual move towards all airports replacing the older regular X-ray scanners with the CT scanners. For 95% of travellers this will be positive because they'll no longer have to worry about baggies of liquids or taking electronics out. The electronics rule in particular is different at just about every airport and sometimes at the whim of the security staff. CT scanners will remove that inconvenience and uncertainty for the vast majority. But with just a little effort on the part of those responsible for airport security, things can be made safe for film too.

 

[koraks]

What they won't tell you usually is what all the colours on the screen mean.

Indeed. But for the most part it just looks like a straight mapping of density onto a color scale to me.

For 95% of travellers this will be positive

Make that 99.95%. There really are very few people traveling with film. Or, more accurately: there are such vast numbers of people traveling without film!

 

[Fatih Ayoglu]

They certainly scan every bag, at least at every airport I've been to. As @koraks says you can often glance at the screen. What they won't tell you usually is what all the colours on the screen mean. Sometimes suspicion is aroused by SLR lenses, I believe due to all the glass. Anything that arouses suspicion is likely to result in a second scan at increased intensity, or a hand inspection of your bag. Which is why the lead lined film bags are often bad news, they just zap harder.

The latest new CT scanner is quite compact and could be mistaken for a regular X-ray scanner. That's a concern. We do need the various airport authorities to agree on how to handle photo film.

Currently in the USA, hand inspection has been permitted for a long time and it seems quite normal for hand inspection requests to be granted for any reason including film. Several reports, including my own from 13 months ago, paint a picture of at least major US airports including in their signage whether the scanners are film safe, and what to do with film. This is excellent and shows they have noticed.

In the UK, civil airports are under the umbrella of the Department for Transport which has listened to Kodak and Ilford and issued instructions to all passenger airports to accept requests for hand inspection of film where CT scanners are installed. The trick is knowing this. It's not publicised.

Other popular destinations such as the EU, Japan, Australia don't seem to have done anything yet. Didn't we have a report about a couple of Middle East airports basically not knowing about film?

In the UK, there is a gradual move towards all airports replacing the older regular X-ray scanners with the CT scanners. For 95% of travellers this will be positive because they'll no longer have to worry about baggies of liquids or taking electronics out. The electronics rule in particular is different at just about every airport and sometimes at the whim of the security staff. CT scanners will remove that inconvenience and uncertainty for the vast majority. But with just a little effort on the part of those responsible for airport security, things can be made safe for film too.

Flew few times via Dubai to Bangkok. In Dubai, when you request hand inspection, they call an officer, usually an Emirati. He looks to your film, checks by hand then says good to go. In Bangkok, because they generally don’t want to argue, the staff reluctantly accepts hand inspection.

 

[Nikon 2]

You can either shoot film in your country or have your film shot leaving it…!

 

[Prest_400]

Flew few times via Dubai to Bangkok. In Dubai, when you request hand inspection, they call an officer, usually an Emirati. He looks to your film, checks by hand then says good to go. In Bangkok, because they generally don’t want to argue, the staff reluctantly accepts hand inspection.

Interesting, I am probably taking one of the ME3 airlines to Asia. Dubai maybe still has traditional X rays but Doha, Qatar have CT scanners throughout, including transit.
I have seen reports of everything, from denied to just insisting a bit for handcheck.

Curiously Qatar upgraded from "dual view" X ray machines and they have press releases about the equipment. These dual view could be seen as providing two 2D views of luggage and let passengers have electronics in the bag.

Agreeing to what Agulliver writes.

And soon, Lina Bessonova should be posting her video about testing film exposure in CT scanners. It was delayed due to sickness.

 

[thefizz]

Interesting, I am probably taking one of the ME3 airlines to Asia. Dubai maybe still has traditional X rays but Doha, Qatar have CT scanners throughout, including transit.
I have seen reports of everything, from denied to just insisting a bit for handcheck.

Curiously Qatar upgraded from "dual view" X ray machines and they have press releases about the equipment. These dual view could be seen as providing two 2D views of luggage and let passengers have electronics in the bag.

Agreeing to what Agulliver writes.

And soon, Lina Bessonova should be posting her video about testing film exposure in CT scanners. It was delayed due to sickness.

I got connecting flights in Doha last October and requested hand checks without any problems. The machines looked like the normal x-ray to me except I did notice a sign stating electronics could be left in ones bag, so maybe they were CT scanners. However, my friend put his colour and B&W films through the same scanners on our return flight and has developed them without any visible problems.

 

[koraks]

Just now, Innsbruck airport, Austria. Regular x-ray machines in a small, local airport. Friendly staff who swabbed my film without complaints or fuss after some insistence from my end. We were virtually the only ones at the security line, which probably helped.

All in all a similar experience like in Vienna a couple of years ago. I think it's a cultural thing, too. They're a friendly bunch, the Austrians. Very pleasant country to travel.

 

[halfaman]

I don't know if this has been already commented, but in Portugal is mandatory to have an X-ray inspection of the hand luggage. It is possible to ask for an exception but must be done in advance sending an email to dfs@anac.pt with pasenger passport and boarding pass and a declaration of the manufacturer that the material should not been exposed to X-rays. If approved they send an official document to show at security.

Isenção de rastreio

 

[koraks]

@halfaman thanks; that's the first piece of film-specific, mainland-Europe regulation I've seen so far. I wonder if the formulation actually covers amateur film use for hobby purposes and whether the widely circulated Kodak and Ilford leaflets/announcements are accepted.

 

[halfaman]

@halfaman thanks; that's the first piece of film-specific, mainland-Europe regulation I've seen so far. I wonder if the formulation actually covers amateur film use for hobby purposes and whether the widely circulated Kodak and Ilford leaflets/announcements are accepted.

Yes, it covers amateur film. A friend had the exception using as "declaration of the manufacturer" the following Kodak document.

https://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/tib/pdf/tib5201.pdf

 

[Nikon 2]

My X-Ray proof camera!
Especially made for international travel…!