Companies Not Marketing Right

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by Hubigpielover, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. tedr1

    tedr1 Member

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    Thank you. I made my remarks in the context of the original poster's subject which is attracting new users to film. I understand this to be the area of consumer imaging, and many people already have some exposure to photography through cell-phones. The digital image is instant and when a print is wanted it can be obtained in minutes. This is what film has to compete with. My remark about "quicker and better" refers to this area of consumer photography that the OP addressed.
    There is another area of photography, for professionals and advanced amateurs. In this area the priorities are different from the consumer area and in some cases leads to preferences for film, as seems to the case with your own work. However I doubt that instant and inexpensive results are high on the list of priorities in this area.
     
  2. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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    two Points are proably in need of Clarification.

    Fuji Film decided to make an all out assault on the North American market, The LA olympics were and the blimp were just one aspect of that . This was Many Many years before the instax cameras were even thought of. Fuji landed everywhere they could including slide, Negative film and printing paper. NOT to mention Motion Picture film. (even things like Microfilm)

    As far as 110 and 126, Both were a big boon to Kodak's sales. Remember that every photofinisher had to buy new or modified equipment to deal with the new formats and so Kodak got much of that business as well as the uptake of new cameras and increased film shot. (and print paper)

    the Disc cameras, not as much.
     
  3. AgX

    AgX Member

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    I was not referring to the times of the LA Olympic Games. But Fuji used blimbs thereafter. Until 2006.
     
  4. Ai Print

    Ai Print Subscriber

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    The world is full of phenomenal photographs made on all kinds of mediums, but like it or not, most people now think all of them originated via the digital medium. And in all honesty, the vast majority of them are viewed digitally even if created with analog means....including ones seen on this site. But most people are not the target market for film and that means even if the marketing for film were increased ten fold, it is still going to be a niche within a niche.

    The reality is that the popularity of making photographs beyond using a smart phone is actually shrinking overall into a niche who's future will be uncertain in the years to come. And since we can't put film into a smart phone, we have to accept and consider the course it is on in the broadest of terms. So the target is people who are, could be and will remain serious enough and engaged enough about photography to make the effort to use more than a smart phone.

    There are several ways to do this but one sure fire way is to show absolutely fantastic work. And not so much technically perfect work but photographs that exude vision and a feel that makes a person almost not care what it was made with, it just pulls them in and their heart stops. Then when they go about the forensics to see how it was made and they find out it was film...it's a holy sh_t moment.

    Nothing inspires me more than earth shattering imagery, it's why I became a professional photographer decades ago. While showing phenomenal photographs made on film is only one of several ways to get people to use it, the significance of how that translates can not be underestimated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  5. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    I'd leave this one to the experts!but,our local photo club is rapidly growing with young people, many of which are putting their smart phones down and started cleaning Dad's old analog SLR.
     
  6. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

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    Well stated. Just one of the ways we film photographers are ambassadors of the hobby.
     
  7. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I think the OP is wrong in assuming that the Marketing particularly the websites are what's at fault, it's also the distribution, this is just my personal experience..

    Lets take Foma, a basic but informative website not marketing driven, but hang on a minute Foma films, paper etc. are easy to find all around the world and at very competitive prices. Foma sell a good range of B&W products film. paper, chemistry.

    Ilford, good marketing and website many new ideas ie Ilford's Local Darkroom Scheme, Harman Lab (UK & US), guide to dealers/suppliers word wide, guide to photo course excellent range of products, film, paper, chemistryalso distribute Paterson equipment etc. Most important their products re esay to find around the world.

    Kodak Alaris, website is improving still not easy to find everything easily. Poor availability outside key markets. The main issue here was the restructuring and outsourcing of their sales and marketing around the world. In the UK they handed distribution to Sangers Ltd closing their own successful distribution centre, Sangers struggled and soon went bust, it's now back under the original distribution team but now separate from Kodak.

    In other countries (outside North America, Europe) Kodak sales are often geared towards the photolabs neglecting the B&W market through stores etc. Because Kodak ceased B&W paper production they cannot supply a full range of products, however they do offer Colour films, paper and chemistry.

    Fuji, like Kodak more heavily biased towards the colour market but unllike the other companies here are a major company in the Digital market, have never had a large presence in the B&W market outside Japan and some of their B&W films were made for them (their XP2 equivalent and at one point Neopan 1600), it's likely that their B&W papers are made in the UK. While Fuji colour films papers and chemistry are readily available wordwide thir B&W films can be found but usually not in quantity.

    Polaroid
    /Impossible Project, have used the Internet in all forms not just their own website to market their products, can't comment about availability.

    As I stated at the start this is from my personal perspective, having travelled in South America and searching for two days in Santiage, Chile, finding it almost impossible to find any Tmax100, but plenty of Foma and Ilford films on the shelves with plenty more available for collection the next day, most stores would have a roll or two of Fuji Acros, it was the same in Lima, Peru.. This mirrored my experiences while living in Turkey. What really surprised me was how well Foma had penetrated the market.

    Ian
     
  8. FoidPoosening

    FoidPoosening Subscriber

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    When I first joined this forum, I was surprised that I did not see people who work at these companies participating regularly in the community.

    My first forum was a PbNation (paintball), and it's full of people who actually work at the manufacturers.
     
  9. AgX

    AgX Member

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    We got here some fellows that are/were affiliated to the photochemical industry. One of the former owners of Harman (Ilford Photo) was even daily logged-in at Apug.
    However, the smaller the company the less time remains for Apug, the more if one even has an own, company forum site.
     
  10. OP
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    Hubigpielover

    Hubigpielover Subscriber

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    I totally agree with the distribution problem. Not to be the bearer of bad news but I found a darkroom supply guy in New Orleans and he said the Ilford distributor just filed for bankruptcy protection.



    Now that you brought it up, it is kind of weird. I am on the Fiat forum and all the vendors post there not just trying to sell stuff but to help owners out.
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    That's no longer an issue as Ilford have set up their own distribution a few weeks ago while they look for another partner. If you look who else the company distributed for it's a very serious issue throughout the industry.

    Ian
     
  12. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    There is a lot more profit margin in Fiat cars, service or accessories than there is in film manufacturing.
    And if one vendor posts something wrong or posts something that is misconstrued, it has far less effect than if a manufacturer does the same.
    Have you ever noticed that anything "official" posted on those forums by FCA is merely a link to FCA's web materials, or a request to a customer to contact them, in order to work out a problem?
     
  13. PerTulip

    PerTulip Member

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    Just happened to me today:
    - Wanted to check reciprocity for Ilford film (Fp4) on the go, just to find out it doesn't open on a current iPhone.
     
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  15. Luckless

    Luckless Member

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    What happens when you try to open the datasheet pdf? Do you have Adobe Acrobat installed on your phone?
     
  16. PerTulip

    PerTulip Member

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    Just shows an empty page. Image-1.jpg If I open the datasheet from my vendor's homepage, the PDF is displayed. Image-1-1.jpg I don't have Acrobat installed, since PDFs are natively supported. And since the PDF works if accessed on my vendor's HP, the PDF support is not the problem.

    But I decided to dig deeper...the product page links to the techincal data sheet at https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1879/product_id/688/ (no filename.pdf) at the end. And Safari on macOS also isn't showing the file. Did they test it? :wink: If I try another browser (Firefox), it works. But not on iOS...
     
  17. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Pass on your concerns to Harman Tech Service by way of a Conversation here on Photrio. They will appreciate it!
     
  18. Harman Tech Service

    Harman Tech Service Partner Partner

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    Harman Tech Service are now aware!
    My colleague, Michelle, in Sales & Marketing tells me:
    "We had a message from the developers yesterday to say that this was fixed, unfortunately when I tested it they've only managed to fix half of the problem."

    Unfortunately, it seems that people with i-phones are still having problems but using Safari on a Mac is OK. :wondering:
    Michelle also states that it's in our top priorities for fixing,
    So, my apologies for the inconvenience and we will get it sorted out.
    Regards,
    David
     
  19. PerTulip

    PerTulip Member

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    Just tested it on 2 different Macs (current macOS), not working in Safari. I need to use Firefox or Chrome to access the technical data sheet and/or film processing chart.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Hubigpielover

    Hubigpielover Subscriber

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    I've always had problems using Safari on Ilford's site. I just use chrome...at one point they had the Ilford book on the site but I can't find it now.
     
  21. ozphoto

    ozphoto Subscriber

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    I have this issue as well, and with a government website here in Australia - PDFs will not show. When I look at the plugin, it indicates that the current/latest PDF reader is not secure - it's a PITA simply because it works on some sites, but not others when I use Safari.

    Here's hoping they get it fixed soon. :smile:
     
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