Color correction for Rollei Digibase CR200?

[Nzoomed]

Agfa themselves even do not hint at lightpiping at all. Not for their 70mm films, nor for their very own type 135 conversion.

From what i translated on Wittner-Cinetec's site, it suggests lightpiping can be an issue, since it says to keep sealed in the dark, same goes for the label to handle in subdued light, and this film does show lightpiping around the sprocket holes, but my images were fine, and certainly not yellow.
I wouldnt worry about it at all, i would just be careful when loading in the camera and storing it in a dark container etc.

I suggest that Richyd tries some of the stock from Wittner for comparison, he shouldn't be disappointed.

 

[ath]

Then the same department is telling two opposing stories. And on this I have several Agfa sources.

That a manufacture of that very film would not be resumed is a different issue.

What if the emulsion is from Leverkusen but has been coated in Mortsel?

 

[David Grenet]

All Fuji Films are made with a polyester base as far as im aware, and it doesnt seem people are reporting this yellowing issue with their films.
Unless this polyester base in the AGFA stock is ultra clear and allowing more light through?

...

True, but i thought pretty much all films today had switched over to polyester, mainly because of its long term stability, it does not degrade or break down, well at least not for hundreds of years

From the Provia datasheet: "Base Material ......... Cellulose Triacetate

It is unusual for any roll film to be coated on polyester. Kodak and Harman (Ilford) sheet films are, and certain specialty films have been in the past (HIE and tech pan spring to mind) but in general if it's 120 or 135 film it's on Cellulose Triacetate.

 

[railwayman3]

From the Provia datasheet: "Base Material ......... Cellulose Triacetate

It is unusual for any roll film to be coated on polyester. Kodak and Harman (Ilford) sheet films are, and certain specialty films have been in the past (HIE and tech pan spring to mind) but in general if it's 120 or 135 film it's on Cellulose Triacetate.

On a factory visit to Harman in, IIRC, 2009, it was stated that none of their current films were coated on polyester.

I believe that an advantage of polyester for aerial films is the dimensional stability, which enables accurate measurements to be taken from the processed negs or transparencies. It was also used for the Ilford "Motordrive" 35mm films in the 1980's for its strength in a thinner base, which allowed a 72 exp length to be squeezed into a standard cassette.

 

[destroya]

regarding light piping.....

when i got my 100 foot roll, i loaded 6 rolls. the first 4 were shot within a week of loading them and they came out great. the other two sat in white film cans. about 2-3 months later i shot the other two rolls. the first 6 frames on those rolls had a terrible yellow cast, then next 3 a light yellow cast and the rest where fine. so if you do load them use them ASAP.

 

[Nzoomed]

this is a very interesting read about film bases!
Perhaps im being confused with motion picture films being polyester nowdays?
I thought that kodaks ESTAR base was used on most of their films too?
I thought that it would have been logical to use polyester base over acetate because it does not degrade nowhere near as fast as acetate and wont get vinegar syndrome.

Anyway ive just been reading here that kodak is shutting down their acetate film plant, they will be buying it from other sources.
http://petapixel.com/2013/06/12/kodak-axes-acetate-film-base-production/

 

[AgX]

What if the emulsion is from Leverkusen but has been coated in Mortsel?

That was the way they did it in the past.
All colour emulsions, including those made for cine and aerial use, were made in their consumer-products plant in Leverkusen. The latter then being driven by truck (2.5h) to the Mortsel plant for coating.

After the sale and insolvency of their consumer branch Agfa ordered at the Leverkusen plant a years-stock of colour emulsions for deep-freeze.

Meanwhile they stated to have re-gained colour emulsion preparation facility at the Mortsel plant. That of course does not necessarily mean that production of all emulsions had been regained. Room for speculation thus...

 

[David Grenet]

On a factory visit to Harman in, IIRC, 2009, it was stated that none of their current films were coated on polyester.

If that's true then they need to update their datasheets:

HP5 Plus sheet film is coated on 0.180mm/7-mil polyester base with an anti-halation backing which clears during development.

 

[railwayman3]

If that's true then they need to update their datasheets:

Sorry, I should have specified roll and 35mm.....I was thinking back to the discussion during the visit, when, IIRC, one of their Directors was mentioning issues of alleged camera damage with motor drives and high-strength PE film.

 

[Nzoomed]

Well After contacting Wittiner-Cinetec, they have confirmed with me that Agfa has told them that they expect to supply this stock for the next 2-3 years, maybe longer.
That's a pretty good timeframe outlook in a dwindling film market.
So who knows if this means the emulsion stock is old or not.

 

[spatz]

If Agfa did indeed say "maybe longer" then I would lean on the side of saying that this indicates the rate at which the film is bought determines how long the old stock lasts. I do hope I am wrong on this

 

[j.c.denton]

It might be that I missed this detail while reading the thread, but is there a reliable source for obtaining this film in 120 without the yellow cast?

I contacted Maco twice after getting back only yellow slides, but did not get any answer, which is why I'd like to prevent them in the future.

 

[AgX]

The only source for Agfa colour films in type 120 is Maco so far.

 

[Henning Serger]

If Agfa did indeed say "maybe longer" then I would lean on the side of saying that this indicates the rate at which the film is bought determines how long the old stock lasts. I do hope I am wrong on this

Well, you are absolutely right on this.
How long this film type will be still available is only dependent on the rate of sales = speed of depleting the stock.
Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 is not used a lot as aerial film anymore, low demand from this side of the market.
The main demand is from 'normal' photographers now, who buy this film labeled as
- Rollei CR 200
- Rollei Crossbird
- Lomography X-Pro Slide 200
- Wittner Chrome 200D.

It is quite easy to get information about the question whether a film is still in production or not. Ask the manufacturer about his capability to deliver big amounts of film for the next 5-10 years. If they say no, you know they are only selling their last stock (by the way, companies interested in a long term supply of this film have asked Agfa and get exactly that answer: no long term supply of bigger volumes possible).

Wittner (and all the other small format film companies) would prefer to offer the much better Fuji colour reversal films to their customers. For a long time they are now asking Fuji to deliver pancakes, ready to invest more than a million dollar for that.
But so far Fuji is unfortunately ignoring that.
Fuji could sell much more reversal film if they would listen.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

It might be that I missed this detail while reading the thread, but is there a reliable source for obtaining this film in 120 without the yellow cast?

I don't know whether the Lomography X-Pro Slide 200 also has the yellow cast (so far all my Rollei CR 200 had it, both 135 and 120, and of course the whole film: It is definitely not a lightpiping problem),
but this film is available in 120 format, too.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[wblynch]

I still wish we could get solid information about how to adjust the results with alternative processing times and temperatures.

There was some talk about that a while back but nothing definitive was ever shared.

 

[Nzoomed]

Well, you are absolutely right on this.
How long this film type will be still available is only dependent on the rate of sales = speed of depleting the stock.
Agfa Aviphot Chrome 200 is not used a lot as aerial film anymore, low demand from this side of the market.
The main demand is from 'normal' photographers now, who buy this film labeled as
- Rollei CR 200
- Rollei Crossbird
- Lomography X-Pro Slide 200
- Wittner Chrome 200D.

It is quite easy to get information about the question whether a film is still in production or not. Ask the manufacturer about his capability to deliver big amounts of film for the next 5-10 years. If they say no, you know they are only selling their last stock (by the way, companies interested in a long term supply of this film have asked Agfa and get exactly that answer: no long term supply of bigger volumes possible).

Wittner (and all the other small format film companies) would prefer to offer the much better Fuji colour reversal films to their customers. For a long time they are now asking Fuji to deliver pancakes, ready to invest more than a million dollar for that.
But so far Fuji is unfortunately ignoring that.
Fuji could sell much more reversal film if they would listen.

Best regards,
Henning

So why did kodak's entire stock of Ektachrome deplete so quickly then?
It only lasted around 8 months max like they estimated!
I really miss the kodak stock big time, but i feel positive that we sill still see film as a niche market with the likes of the new ferrania stock announced.

 

[Henning Serger]

So why did kodak's entire stock of Ektachrome deplete so quickly then?
It only lasted around 8 months max like they estimated!

The answer is very simple: Demand has been very high, compared to supply.

That exactly proves what I've written in my post: The Super8 and 16mm film users are desperately looking for colour reversal film.
Kodak is ignoring the demand and has stopped production.
Since then all the very active small format film companies, who are cutting and spooling colour and BW reversal film, like Wittner, GK etc. are looking for quality alternatives.
Best alternatives are of course all the Fuji colour reversal films.
Therefore the small format companies are asking Fuji for quite a long time now for delivering material. Material worth more than one million dollar. We are not talking about peanuts here.
Of course such a demand really helps supporting the E-6 film production at Fuji.
But so far, unfortunately no answer from Fuji.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Nzoomed]

it really makes me mad to hear that, since if there was still a reasonable demand for the kodak products, why they think its uneconomical to produce?
I really wonder what the management are trying to achieve?
Since the film division is the only profitable part of the company, i guess they are trying to return a higher profit for their shareholders, even though they probably did get a return from their E6 film division.
I think Kodak need to downscale their production, so that smaller runs of various films can be produced, rather than trying to produce larger quantities at once, which was sustainable in a larger film market. I think that Kodak even admitted that they need to do this.

 

[wblynch]

Kodak is trying to achieve insolvency.

 

[madgardener]

Thank you Mr Perez for killing a once proud company.

 

[MartinP]

Remember Perez is/was only following the direction he was given by the board.

Also, the sales and marketing of the film division is now owned by the UK Kodak pension-scheme. They intend to keep things running in order to pay their membership their dues from the profits. The film is, or will be, produced in the usual facilities in Rochester which are NOT owned by the pension scheme so I hope they have an iron-clad supply contract sorted out . . .

 

[wblynch]

Future supply will be contracted by multiple sources not necessarily Eastman Kodak.

This has already begun with the microfilm from Agfa.

Look for Ferrania gaining a nice fat contract soon. "New Ektachrome!" (made in Italy, Packaged in Mexico, sold in Britain)

 

[Prest_400]

It's sad that they can't get into niche market mentality and sometimes end withdrawing material that has good demand and it is even profitable! (but perhaps not enough profitable, that is)

Future supply will be contracted by multiple sources not necessarily Eastman Kodak.

This has already begun with the microfilm from Agfa.

Look for Ferrania gaining a nice fat contract soon. "New Ektachrome!" (made in Italy, Packaged in Mexico, sold in Britain)

Take ektachrome formula from Rochester...

Send to Ferrania

R&D a bit
and gotcha!

(If it were that easy)

 

[Nzoomed]

It's sad that they can't get into niche market mentality and sometimes end withdrawing material that has good demand and it is even profitable! (but perhaps not enough profitable, that is)


Take ektachrome formula from Rochester...

Send to Ferrania

R&D a bit
and gotcha!

(If it were that easy)

that would be awesome!