Cinestill launches Kodak Double-X in 120

[Auer]

That's the least you should expect for that price

It probably does not have the volume required to be much cheaper, so the price is acceptable to me.

 

[Auer]

City Frame-2 by Eric Auer, on Flickr

 

[Robert Maxey]

Ha.

Seriously though, with respect to 120 XX, why? Sure, trying things is fun. Sure, telling people you use a film most people don’t use makes you cool. But why else?

Well, If it is sharp and fine grained enough for my needs, I'll give it a toss. Now, if Verichrome Pan would come back. 220/70mm, please..

Bob

 

[Robert Maxey]

I'm pretty sure there was a Lloyd style one at some point, but I've collected a regular Lloyd style bulk loader design on Thingiverse; it shouldn't be hard to replicate with a bigger chamber for the bulk roll. Just need to have the spool dimensions to make the expanded chamber fit.

I was thinking about the good, old Lloyd. I was surprised to see it is (apparently) still being made.

You know, Epson will sell you their Epson Paper Lab for your office. Perhaps someone will make a machine to make sheet film.

Bob

 

[Robert Maxey]

I don't think there is anything to stop Eastman Kodak from contract coating for other vendors, as long as they aren't contract coating a Kodak branded still film.

A group of like minded people have tried in vain to get Kodak to make a run of Pan Matrix Film. Several others have as well. No go. Kodak wont entertain this. At the time, a friend was in contact with Kodak and she tells me it was as though they asked EK to perpetrate a string of murders.

It might be because they no longer own many of their patents, so a very good formula would be required before EK could start. Just a guess.

Bob

 

[Robert Maxey]

Is the 70mm perforated?? That would be fun in my Hasselblad. Where do you get short or even 400' rolls of this stuff??

I agree. If you can get long rolls, that would be cool. My guess is, with a little thought and a solid printer, you might be able to make a simple device to perforate the stock.

Bob

 

[Lachlan Young]

A group of like minded people have tried in vain to get Kodak to make a run of Pan Matrix Film. Several others have as well. No go. Kodak wont entertain this. At the time, a friend was in contact with Kodak and she tells me it was as though they asked EK to perpetrate a string of murders.

It might be because they no longer own many of their patents, so a very good formula would be required before EK could start. Just a guess.

Pan-Matrix seems to have been a lot less technologically complex/ advanced than people want it to be (which will have made it more and more of a manufacturing headache over time). The problem was/ is the quantities that would have to be made and used up in its short window of usability - and who would pay for all of it, warehouse it, etc. As a toll-coating exercise, it's likely achievable at several coating plants, if you are sensible and don't jump up and down demanding an exact drop-in replacement.

 

[MattKing]

It is unlikely that the Pan/Matrix material was made on the Building 38 line, so any earlier formula they had would have to be re-designed.
I'm sure Eastman Kodak would be happy to do that for you - they do custom coating to customer's specifications - but their minimum order quantity would probably dissuade you.
Where they won't respond favourably is to a request to make small runs - that isn't within their capabilities. Harman's machine is set up for much smaller runs, but even then it would be expensive, and you might have to bring the design to them.

 

[Robert Maxey]

Pan-Matrix seems to have been a lot less technologically complex/ advanced than people want it to be (which will have made it more and more of a manufacturing headache over time). The problem was/ is the quantities that would have to be made and used up in its short window of usability - and who would pay for all of it, warehouse it, etc. As a toll-coating exercise, it's likely achievable at several coating plants, if you are sensible and don't jump up and down demanding an exact drop-in replacement.

Yes, it is relatively simple process to make this film. One thing we long for is a panchromatic version because separation negatives are essentially built-in, so making DT prints from color negative becomes much easier.

The formulas and production/coating procedures I have fooled around with come from James Browning, an accomplished Dye Transfer printer. It is the same formula EFKE used when they offered matrix film.

Bob

 

[Robert Maxey]

It is unlikely that the Pan/Matrix material was made on the Building 38 line, so any earlier formula they had would have to be re-designed.
I'm sure Eastman Kodak would be happy to do that for you - they do custom coating to customer's specifications - but their minimum order quantity would probably dissuade you.
Where they won't respond favourably is to a request to make small runs - that isn't within their capabilities. Harman's machine is set up for much smaller runs, but even then it would be expensive, and you might have to bring the design to them.

Actually, they do make short runs of other coated products. I am not certain what their minimums are these days, however. They take it on a case by case basis. For decades they refused to make matrix film so many dye transfer printers had to rely upon the huge stocks of film, paper, dyes they quickly bought and went into huge debt to stockpile.

They did this because EK discontinued all DT materials. This gave some people a chance to buy up remaining stocks. Their business relied upon it. I know of one Cibachrome printer that did the same when that material was withdrawn from the market.

Bob

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

I shot and processed two rolls today. Pretty sunny and clear day, so I wasn't worried about exposure, and stuck to a sunny-rule. I used the film with no filter, and with an orange (3x) filter.

I mixed a fresh batch of D-96 following Kodak's recipe, and processed 6 mins at 21C.

Looks nice and sharp as it's drying, but the thing that strikes me the most is the base. Either it's very grey, or it's a bit foggy, because it's denser than the 35mm Double-X, and denser than the usual 120 base. Might not make a difference in the end (cf. Berenice Abbott: "fog? what fog? just print through it!").

 

[mshchem]

How's the Israeli stuff? I've seen it too.

FYI, I developed a 15 foot roll of the Israel VPS III, expiration of 1997. No trouble with processing. The film is horribly age/heat fogged. I got images no problem but I tossed the film. I was really after the cassettes, so no big deal.
Any experience with the India film?? It's next on my wasting time list.

 

[Michel Hardy-Vallée]

Just a quick neg "scan" (digicam on light table). It's good. Got the look, nice shadow details, sharp. Notice the custom edge markings. The film curls quite a bit, which reminds me of the current Rollei films and other rebrands/repackagings of aero/specialty films.

 

[Cholentpot]

FYI, I developed a 15 foot roll of the Israel VPS III, expiration of 1997. No trouble with processing. The film is horribly age/heat fogged. I got images no problem but I tossed the film. I was really after the cassettes, so no big deal.
Any experience with the India film?? It's next on my wasting time list.

You got film from Israel and it's heat damaged? Color me suprised!

India stuff is good, develops good and clear at ISO 100 there abouts. It is a picky film by nature though. Gets weird flares and it's almost as if there's a built in red filter. It's also perfed. Otherwise, no fog as far as I can tell.

 

[mshchem]

You got film from Israel and it's heat damaged? Color me suprised!

India stuff is good, develops good and clear at ISO 100 there abouts. It is a picky film by nature though. Gets weird flares and it's almost as if there's a built in red filter. It's also perfed. Otherwise, no fog as far as I can tell.

I just loaded up my bulk loader with the 70mm from India. Plus-X Aerographic. Gives me a chuckle to play around with this stuff.

 

[Cholentpot]

I just loaded up my bulk loader with the 70mm from India. Plus-X Aerographic. Gives me a chuckle to play around with this stuff.

Keep me clued in on your method and results. This was in D-76 1:1 as far as I remember.

 

[mshchem]

Keep me clued in on your method and results. This was in D-76 1:1 as far as I remember.

I'm going to make up a gallon of XTOL or D-76 and replenish.

 

[Cholentpot]

I'm going to make up a gallon of XTOL or D-76 and replenish.

Can't get Xtol locally so I stick with D-76.

 

[mshchem]

Can't get Xtol locally so I stick with D-76.

Hard to beat D-76!

 

[Cholentpot]

I got intrigued by Kodak XX and ordered two rolls. When developed in Xtol it looks like FP4 and HP5 had a kid.
[sample image]

That's smooth.

 

[otto.f]

Reason?

Maybe it works as if you’re using a yellow filter. You mostly do not need to correct the exposure with +1 with a yellow filter when shooting in tungsten light.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Cinestill have launched BwXX in 120 format.

Aka kodak double X 5222. Previously only in 135.

https://emulsive.org/articles/news/...ographers-for-the-first-time-in-medium-format

Wonderful news.

 

[Bill Burk]

I enjoy how the grain looks. This is a nice film.