Choices for IR film?

[Andrew O'Neill]

If you can get your hands on some Konica IR, grab them. I used this film a lot back in the 90's. Performed nicely with a #25 filter. It was a hazy summer day. IR energy abound!

 

[AgX]

Matt, is it the case that at higher altitude, like here in Colorado, there would also be less IR, so further adjustment would be needed?

To the contrary.
The lower one goes the more atmosphere light has to pass, and the more absorbtion and scattering takes place. This effect though is more pronounced for the UV part.

 

[pentaxuser]

I have always been impressed by Konica IR film. This looks as if it could be something from on the "Road to Mandalay" entitled "And the dawn came up like thunder out of North Vancouver, ' cross the bay "

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I have always been impressed by Konica IR film. This looks as if it could be something from on the "Road to Mandalay" entitled "And the dawn came up like thunder out of North Vancouver, ' cross the bay "

 

[pbromaghin]

To the contrary.
The lower one goes the more atmosphere light has to pass, and the more absorbtion and scattering takes place. This effect though is more pronounced for the UV part.

Thank you. For some strange reason I had it in my head that the increased UV would somehow do something to the IR. Duhhhhh.

 

[Team ADOX]

Rollei IR400 is Aviphot 400. (400 is effective aerial film speed; it's more like 250 ISO.)

No, that is not correct.
Rolllei IR 400 was Agfa Aviphot Pan 400 in former times, but that is long gone. It was about a decade ago.
The last coating run of Aviphot Pan 400 (which was also sold as ASP400s surveillance film) was in 2008, 12 years ago. When Agfa did this last coating run they informed all their big industrial customers that this was the last coating. And they reserved most of that material for the biggest customers in aerial photography. That is the reason why photo distributors who had bought that film for their own brands had to switch to the remaining Agfa Aviphot Pan 200, including Maco / Rollei Film.
Therefore the situation for the last years has been:
Rollei IR 400 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Retro 400S = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Superpan 200 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200

There is a bit of remaining, long expired Aviphot Pan 400 rests (leftover warehouse stock) in the market sold by tiny marketing companies / bloggers / influencers under different names.

And concerning the real film speed of Agfa aerial films: As in aerial photography you photograph down from the direction of the sun, you have almost no shadows, and less intense highlights. But lots of mid-tones (which you want to have clearly separated). Therefore the sensitivity of aerial films (logD 0.1 above base fog) is measured for Zone III, not for Zone I as with our standard "ground" photography films. Therefore if you use such films in normal pictorial photography on the ground, you generally have to give them about two stops more exposure (and shorten the development time) if you want to have acceptable shadow detail, and a more linear, less S-shaped characteristic curve.

RPX 25 appears to be Aviphot 40,...

No, that is not correct.
Agfa Aviphot Pan 40 is only available as a PE0 film with a polyester base of 0.06mm (look at the Agfa home page). But that is too thin for proper use in our normal photo cameras.
RPX 25 has a PE1 base with 0.01mm thickness.
Agfa Aviphot Pan 80 is available with PE1 base. And if you compare both films under exact identical lab conditions you will find they are the same.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

No, that is not correct.
Rolllei IR 400 was Agfa Aviphot Pan 400 in former times, but that is long gone. It was about a decade ago.
The last coating run of Aviphot Pan 400 (which was also sold as ASP400s surveillance film) was in 2008, 12 years ago. When Agfa did this last coating run they informed all their big industrial customers that this was the last coating. And they reserved most of that material for the biggest customers in aerial photography. That is the reason why photo distributors who had bought that film for their own brands had to switch to the remaining Agfa Aviphot Pan 200, including Maco / Rollei Film.
Therefore the situation for the last years has been:
Rollei IR 400 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Retro 400S = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Superpan 200 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200

There is a bit of remaining, long expired Aviphot Pan 400 rests (leftover warehouse stock) in the market sold by tiny marketing companies / bloggers / influencers under different names.

And concerning the real film speed of Agfa aerial films: As in aerial photography you photograph down from the direction of the sun, you have almost no shadows, and less intense highlights. But lots of mid-tones (which you want to have clearly separated). Therefore the sensitivity of aerial films (logD 0.1 above base fog) is measured for Zone III, not for Zone I as with our standard "ground" photography films. Therefore if you use such films in normal pictorial photography on the ground, you generally have to give them about two stops more exposure (and shorten the development time) if you want to have acceptable shadow detail, and a more linear, less S-shaped characteristic curve.



No, that is not correct.
Agfa Aviphot Pan 40 is only available as a PE0 film with a polyester base of 0.06mm (look at the Agfa home page). But that is too thin for proper use in our normal photo cameras.
RPX 25 has a PE1 base with 0.01mm thickness.
Agfa Aviphot Pan 80 is available with PE1 base. And if you compare both films under exact identical lab conditions you will find they are the same.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

So Rollei IR is Aviphot 200 which isn't coated anymore. So, when that stock runs out, it's bye bye to Rollei IR and the only decent IR sheet film on the market?

 

[Team ADOX]

So Rollei IR is Aviphot 200 which isn't coated anymore. So, when that stock runs out, it's bye bye to Rollei IR and the only decent IR sheet film on the market?

We will have to wait and see: Agfa has indeed thought about discontinuation of Aviphot Pan 200, too. But then surprisingly changed direction. At least currently it remains in the programme. We don't know about the mid-term and long-term future.
And we shouldn't forget the global economic downturn caused by Covid-19. Nobody knows how the economy will be in 6, 12 or 18 months. And which long-term effects it will have.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

We will have to wait and see: Agfa has indeed thought about discontinuation of Aviphot Pan 200, too. But then surprisingly changed direction. At least currently it remains in the programme. We don't know about the mid-term and long-term future.
And we shouldn't forget the global economic downturn caused by Covid-19. Nobody knows how the economy will be in 6, 12 or 18 months. And which long-term effects it will have.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

No, that is not correct.
Rolllei IR 400 was Agfa Aviphot Pan 400 in former times, but that is long gone. It was about a decade ago.
The last coating run of Aviphot Pan 400 (which was also sold as ASP400s surveillance film) was in 2008, 12 years ago. When Agfa did this last coating run they informed all their big industrial customers that this was the last coating. And they reserved most of that material for the biggest customers in aerial photography. That is the reason why photo distributors who had bought that film for their own brands had to switch to the remaining Agfa Aviphot Pan 200, including Maco / Rollei Film.
Therefore the situation for the last years has been:
Rollei IR 400 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Retro 400S = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Superpan 200 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200

There is a bit of remaining, long expired Aviphot Pan 400 rests (leftover warehouse stock) in the market sold by tiny marketing companies / bloggers / influencers under different names.

And concerning the real film speed of Agfa aerial films: As in aerial photography you photograph down from the direction of the sun, you have almost no shadows, and less intense highlights. But lots of mid-tones (which you want to have clearly separated). Therefore the sensitivity of aerial films (logD 0.1 above base fog) is measured for Zone III, not for Zone I as with our standard "ground" photography films. Therefore if you use such films in normal pictorial photography on the ground, you generally have to give them about two stops more exposure (and shorten the development time) if you want to have acceptable shadow detail, and a more linear, less S-shaped characteristic curve.



No, that is not correct.
Agfa Aviphot Pan 40 is only available as a PE0 film with a polyester base of 0.06mm (look at the Agfa home page). But that is too thin for proper use in our normal photo cameras.
RPX 25 has a PE1 base with 0.01mm thickness.
Agfa Aviphot Pan 80 is available with PE1 base. And if you compare both films under exact identical lab conditions you will find they are the same.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

Thank you that is interesting to me.

 

[removedacct1]

Rollei Infrared400 shot yesterday to test a newly serviced 1949 Kodak Retina 010, Schneider Retina-Xenar f3.5 lens, at f11. Hoya R72 filter used.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Rollei Infrared400 shot yesterday to test a newly serviced 1949 Kodak Retina 010, Schneider Retina-Xenar f3.5 lens, at f11. Hoya R72 filter used.
View attachment 245134

Nice one. Looks like your Kodak Retina is working fine.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Rollei Infrared400 shot yesterday to test a newly serviced 1949 Kodak Retina 010, Schneider Retina-Xenar f3.5 lens, at f11. Hoya R72 filter used.

Really nice image! The tones are great; I'm trying to get my infrared images to look that nice.

 

[removedacct1]

Really nice image! The tones are great; I'm trying to get my infrared images to look that nice.

Thank you.
Part of the deal with getting good results is about exposure: bracket in half stops as much as 2 (or even 3) full stops over what you meter. This film can handle density as long as you develop it appropriately (AVOID Rodinal!). Another factor is selecting light conditions that work well. The scene in the photo was quite contrasty: mid-morning light streaming across the yard, light haze over the sun. The IR spectrum reveals more penetration into shadow areas than you might expect. Third, the use of an opaque IR filter like the Hoya R72 will be a huge asset. The tonality of the resulting images will be about as close as you can get to HIE as modern films can take you.

Opinions on the subject will vary of course - this is just my own approach to this particular film. YMMV, depends what your goal is.

 

[removedacct1]

Nice one. Looks like your Kodak Retina is working fine.

Thanks, Andrew! Yes, it is working just fine. Pretty decent optics for a 71 year old camera.

 

[scheimfluger_77]

Rollei Infrared400 shot yesterday to test a newly serviced 1949 Kodak Retina 010, Schneider Retina-Xenar f3.5 lens, at f11. Hoya R72 filter used.
View attachment 245134

Is that your place Paul? It looks nice and cozy.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Rollei Infrared400 shot yesterday to test a newly serviced 1949 Kodak Retina 010, Schneider Retina-Xenar f3.5 lens, at f11. Hoya R72 filter used.
View attachment 245134

Well done. That is what I expect with Rollei IR 400 and a R72 [720] filter.

 

[removedacct1]

Is that your place Paul? It looks nice and cozy.

That is the homestead, yes! Not a bad place to spend lock-down.

 

[wyofilm]

Therefore the situation for the last years has been:
Rollei IR 400 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Retro 400S = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200
Rollei Superpan 200 = Agfa Aviphot Pan 200

If I am reading this right, Rollei IR400 = Rollie Retro 400S = Rollie Superpan 200. All three Rollie films are identical?

Thanks for the information.

 

[Team ADOX]

If I am reading this right, Rollei IR400 = Rollie Retro 400S = Rollie Superpan 200. All three Rollie films are identical?

Thanks for the information.

Yes, all three are based on Agfa Aviphot Pan 200.

ADOX - Innovation In Analog Photography.

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Part of the deal with getting good results is about exposure....

Thanks for the info.!

 

[Agulliver]

Thanks that's what I thought, Rollei Retro 400S was Agfa Aviphot 200. Thanks for confirming this.

It's nice film, both as a regular 400ISO B&W pan film and as an IR film.

 

[OrientPoint]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but if Rollei Superpan 200, IR400 and Retro 400S are all Agfa Aviphot 200, then what is the difference between them besides the name on the box?

 

[abruzzi]

Apologies if this is a dumb question, but if Rollei Superpan 200, IR400 and Retro 400S are all Agfa Aviphot 200, then what is the difference between them besides the name on the box?

the price.

 

[OrientPoint]

The listing on Freestyle for 400S states that it's sensitive to 720nm; for Superpan 200 it's says 750nm and for 400IR it's 820nm. Are they making this up? Different spectral response implies different films to me. Maybe TeamAdox can shed some light (no pun intended) on this?