CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

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BrianShaw

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I don't mean to be flippant here, but I meter the way I would with any film given whatever the scene is. I do what I always do, meter for what I want 'correctly' exposed.
I didn't do anything special with this film, and that was my specific intention because I wanted to use it as a regular, unsuspecting, innocent buyer would, who has never heard of Photrio....
Which is also why I dropped it off at my lab, with no instructions as to how to develop it because I wanted the experience that a regular civilian would get.
Not flippant at all. Thank you for the clarification.
 
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...Kodak should have badged their “3200” film with an 800 or 1000 designation.

...Kodak should have been "more honest" and put the NOMINAL (true ISO) rating on the film canister and packaging. Explaining deviations in the documentation is fine but they marketed the film as 3200 speed...

A somewhat unusual occurrence: Brian and I agree completely on this. :smile:

...I don't understand the controversy, and starting to think that the revised title was more correct than I initially thought. :smile:

Yup. 😀
 

Huss

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Shot at ISO 200, given to local lab to develop w no instructions, TMAX developer.

Metered off the wall just before the entrance. Full image, then 100% crop from highlight area, 100% crop from shadow area.








 

Huss

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Following your logic, Kodak should have bdged their “3200” film with an 800 or 1000 designation.

Agree 100%. I only found out that these are actually 800 ISO films by digging into them. It is very misleading having 3200 on the box, because it is only that if you push the film 2 stops. Plus your shop - if you take it to one - will charge you for a 2 stop push.
But I guess Kodak and Ilford with their 3200 get a break. Because they are Kodak and Ilford. But Catlabs? How dare they have 320 on the box when they say to shoot it at 200!

Let me tell you sumfink. 200 is a whole heck of a lot closer to 320, than 800 is to 3200...
 

faberryman

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Agree 100%. I only found out that these are actually 800 ISO films by digging into them. It is very misleading having 3200 on the box, because it is only that if you push the film 2 stops. Plus your shop - if you take it to one - will charge you for a 2 stop push.
But I guess Kodak and Ilford with their 3200 get a break. Because they are Kodak and Ilford. But Catlabs? How dare they have 320 on the box when they say to shoot it at 200!

Let me tell you sumfink. 200 is a whole heck of a lot closer to 320, than 800 is to 3200...

Neither Kodak nor Ilford have an ISO rating on their boxes. Do you think FP4 has an ISO of 4 and HP5 has an ISO of 5? I look at the Kodak and Ilford boxes and don't see an ISO rating, so I look at the datasheet. So looking in the datasheet is "digging" but having to go to the CatLABS site to find the recommendation that you shoot at EI 200 is not? Look at what does CatLABS does? They take a film that has an ISO of 200 and put "EI ISO 320" on the box. And did the follow the ISO rubrik for determining an ISO of 320? No, they just made it up for marketing. And you can't see the differences. Pretty astonishing.
 
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Huss

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Neither Kodak nor Ilford have an ISO rating on their boxes. Do you think FP4 has an ISO of 4 and HP5 has an ISO of 5? I look at the Kodak and Ilford boxes and don't see an ISO rating, so I look at the datasheets. But what does CatLABS do? They take a film that has an ISO of 200 and put "EI ISO 320" on the box. And you can't see the difference. Pretty astonishing.

It says TMAX 3200 or Delta 3200 in huge print. That is what they call the film. For about 99% of people that means ISO. Even though technically they may not say ISO.
 

BrianShaw

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It says TMAX 3200 or Delta 3200 in huge print. That is what they call the film. For about 99% of people that means ISO. Even though technically they may not say ISO.

And it's the same story even if that was interpreted as EI xxxxx.
 

MattKing

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Here is the Kodak website information - how does the CatLabs compare?
1669139740698.png

The comparisons aren't that important though. The Kodak product is part of a family of film, with relatively extensive marketing and technical information available in many forms, from several sources.
One can relatively easily come to a conclusion about which Kodak or Ilford product makes sense for one's needs by reviewing the publicly shared information - both directly from the manufacturer/distributor, or from the legion of prior users.
The same applies to the Ilford product.
CatLabs chooses to share what CatLabs chooses to share.
 

BrianShaw

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Neither Kodak nor Ilford have an ISO rating on their boxes. Do you think FP4 has an ISO of 4 and HP5 has an ISO of 5? I look at the Kodak and Ilford boxes and don't see an ISO rating, so I look at the datasheet. So looking in the datasheet is "digging" but having to go to the CatLABS site to find the recommendation that you shoot at EI 200 is not? Look at what does CatLABS does? They take a film that has an ISO of 200 and put "EI ISO 320" on the box. And did the follow the ISO rubrik for determining an ISO of 320? No, they just made it up for marketing. And you can't see the differences. Pretty astonishing.

You lost me on that... who would think that and why?
 

MattKing

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I've said this earlier and I'll say this again.
I have no problem with people who decide they like the film when they meter it using an EI of 200 and then develop it to a higher than average contrast. Go for it, and go ahead recommending that approach to others.
Just don't confuse that with an ISO designation for sensitivity and contrast.
They take a film that has an ISO of 200

I don't think it has an ISO sensitivity of 200. Most likely at least a stop less sensitive.
 

faberryman

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It says TMAX 3200 or Delta 3200 in huge print. That is what they call the film. For about 99% of people that means ISO. Even though technically they may not say ISO.

You lost me on that... who would think that and why?

The name of Kodak's film is TMax P3200. You've got a better case with Delta 3200, except neither has an ISO designation unlike CatLABs "EI ISO 320". I view CatLABs "EI ISO" designation as among the lesser of its misrepresentations anyway, but it was the first thing that jumped out at me. Seeing that I knew nothing else the CatLABS guy said was going to be credible.
 

MattKing

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Let me tell you sumfink. 200 is a whole heck of a lot closer to 320, than 800 is to 3200...

50 ISO is to 200 as 800 is to 3200 - except the Kodak material actually includes the 800 information.
 

faberryman

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I don't think it has an ISO sensitivity of 200. Most likely at least a stop less sensitive.

The Agfa Aviphot 200 data sheet says it can be exposed at 125 to 250 ASA. The datasheet goes on to say that exposure depends on the required image contrast, the light reflected from the earth, and the altitude and speed of the aircraft.

Aparat tests showed an ISO of around 80.
 

faberryman

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Fred, I'm referring to the highlighted portion of the quote, which referenced FP4 and HP5, not the 3200 products as you mistakenly quoted in post #1,042. :wink:

If people interpret P3200 to mean ISO 3200, why would they not interpret FP4 to mean ISO 4 and HP5 to mean ISO 5?
 

BrianShaw

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The Agfa Aviphot 200 data sheet says it can be exposed at 125 to 250 ASA. The datasheet goes on to say that exposure depends on the required image contrast, the light reflected from the earth, and the altitude and speed of the aircraft.

Aparat tests showed an ISO of around 80.

This is true. To be fair, though, AGFA isn't exactly clear if that is the "aerial ISO/ASA" or the standard ISO/ASA. We can probably safely assume that they mean "Effective Aerial Film Speed (EAFS)".



No matter, I keep getting stuck at the evidence of decent photographs when CatLabs film is used at 200, as recommended, and processed in a normal commercial processing regimen. Haven't seen similar results of exposing at 80...
 

MattKing

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Haven't seen similar results of exposing at 80...

There are a couple in the testing thread.
But yes, I really would like to see more real world application of the more exposure, less development approach that the testing thread indicates would be fruitful - or at least interesting.
Getting it here for experimentation is impractical for me.
 

Oldwino

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I've shot 2 rolls at EI 160 and developed them in Diafine. I liked the results with regard to image contrast. Seeing that Diafine usually gives you about a stop extra speed, it makes sense to me that the actual ISO is around 80-ish. For me, shooting at 200 with the recommended processing times yields too much contrast for my typical shooting situations.

I like the film, and will continue to use it when it suits my needs. I would like to try some in 120 as well, just for curiosity's sake. The price is right, too.

I am a little disappointed that CatLabs was less than forthcoming with information, as if they had something to hide...which it turns out, it seems they did. It seems plausible that the recommended EI and "push" development times were an effort to obfuscate the film's true origins.
 

Oldwino

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Don Heisz

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If Aviphot is given more light - exposed and developed at something closer to its actual daylight ISO (not its aero ISO) - you will get more shadow detail. You may or may not like how the highlights render.
Just as I often don't like how the shadows are rendered when it is under-exposed at 200 and pushed.

Have you every used any Aviphot film? It has a massive drop off in the shadows. In a normal contrast scene, if you expose for those, your upper midtones will blow out.
If you expose it properly in a low-contrast scene, you get plenty of shadow detail.
 
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