CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

Huss · Oct 15, 2022

faberryman said:
My take on it is a significant number of the threads on the forum are about issues related to the darkroom, and most young film enthusiasts don't have darkrooms, so the forum is largely irrelevant. Really, how many young film enthusiasts are you going to engage with a discussion of whether stop bath or a water rinse is better? That and most young film enthusiasts don't have any idea what a forum is, not having cut their internet teeth on Compuserve and a dial-up modem.

You do know about young people and taking classes in high schools, colleges, universities etc where they get to use darkrooms, right?

Of course not...

This site would scare young people away, unless they are looking for some old fart to yell at them telling them they are doing it wrong.

I can just see some kid mistakenly coming here for advice:
"I've seen this film called CatLabs and I would like to experiment with it. See what kind of images I can get. Any advice?"

Photrio chorus between rounds of blowing on their soup "Whatever you are talking about sucks! Only do what we tell you! We are the gate keepers! "

faberryman · Oct 15, 2022

Huss said:
You do know about young people and taking classes in high schools, colleges, universities etc where they get to use darkrooms, right?

Of course not.

Well, I did take courses over at my community college for six or eight years before COVID, both film and digital, including three courses which were darkroom based. The students were mostly in their early twenties. They probably would have liked the price of CatLABS film, but, from what I have seen here, I think they would have found it frustrating to learn to print with it.

faberryman · Oct 15, 2022

Huss said:
This site would scare young people away, unless they are looking for some old fart to yell at them telling them they are doing it wrong.

I can just see some kid mistakenly coming here for advice:
"I've seen this film called CatLabs and I would like to experiment with it. See what kind of images I can get. Any advice?"

Photrio chorus between rounds of blowing on their soup "Whatever you are talking about sucks! Only do what we tell you! We are the gate keepers! "

Given that assessment, I am not sure why you are here.

brbo · Oct 15, 2022

Huss said:
I can just see some kid mistakenly coming here for advice:
"I've seen this film called CatLabs and I would like to experiment with it. See what kind of images I can get. Any advice?"

"High contrast, empty shadows and high probability of blown highlights in certain conditions if shot and developed as recommended". That kid would also get advice what to do if he/she wants different results, because Photrio has users that have shot films like that for years.

And then you'd waltz in and said nothing of the above is true because that film is only $6.99.

Oldwino · Oct 15, 2022

brbo said:
Huss said:

I can just see some kid mistakenly coming here for advice:
"I've seen this film called CatLabs and I would like to experiment with it. See what kind of images I can get. Any advice?"

Click to expand...

"High contrast, empty shadows and high probability of blown highlights in certain conditions if shot and developed as recommended".

Kid: "COOL!"

BrianShaw · Oct 15, 2022

Oldwino said:
Kid: "COOL!"

kewl - Wiktionary

en.wiktionary.org

CatLABS · Oct 15, 2022

I volunteer on a "neighborhood council" where the vast majority of voices are boomers yelling at the world they have been at it for 30+ years so they deserve unquestioned respect and their design ideas are the only ones that could possibly considered, followed by often endless tirades about how they know what "the kids of today" want.

faberryman said:
My take on it is a significant number of the threads on the forum are about issues related to the darkroom, and most young film enthusiasts don't have darkrooms,

BS of this level has not been seen here for a while, though admittedly, i do not follow APUG very closely for some years, when i did, this was a common trope here. Ultimately, nothing has fundamentally changed. Still sounding like NIIMBY boomers telling the world they know best, gate keeping and explaining to the youth they know what the youth want and what the youth should have.

faberryman said:
so the forum is largely irrelevant.

Has been for a long time....

faberryman said:
Really, how many young film enthusiasts are you going to engage with a discussion of whether stop bath or a water rinse is better? That and most young film enthusiasts don't have any idea what a forum is, not having cut their internet teeth on Compuserve and a dial-up modem.

...despite the best efforts of "those young kids" who know nothing because they did not have baptism by forum firestorm on when AOL was a thing.

Anecdotally, i grew up with dial up modems, ICQ, AOL, mIRC and all i can tell you about "cutting your teeth on compuserve" is that you all must watch this video from one of the best writers and video makers in the world today, to see just how slowly you have progressed:

faberryman said:
Speaking of social media, I have asked a couple of times and no one has provided any links to extended discussions of CatLABS' new film on social media. Photrio is where it all seems to be happening. Maybe only the elderly are interested in it.

You are all taking to yourselves.
Ironic, comical, sad? just like in an epic rap battle of history, you decide.

Much like this forum, the neighborhood groups are i volunteer with in decline, finding it near impossible to recruit "young blood", mostly because of the predominant voices in the room that are behaving much in the way this forum does. As a somewhat young person, i can tell you first hand, not only is there nothing of value for anyone to learn here through a new thread not found with a google search, the way it might be learnt is hurtful, traumatic and enough to turn someone away from wanting to do what they came here for, shoot more film. Yall have shot yourself in the leg long ago, nothing new here, but this level of still whining and ranting about how you are the center of the conversation is ludicrous at best. Its clear that you want people like me to leave you alone, not to bother you if i wont "behave" and respect your every command, then wonder why so few people use this forum. Keep talking amongst yourselves, you are making great progress here and a few of us are indeed having a good laugh.

faberryman · Oct 15, 2022

CatLABS said:
I volunteer on a "neighborhood council" where the vast majority of voices are boomers yelling at the world they have been at it for 30+ years so they deserve unquestioned respect and their design ideas are the only ones that could possibly considered, followed by often endless tirades about how they know what "the kids of today" want.

BS of this level has not been seen here for a while, though admittedly, i do not follow APUG very closely for some years, when i did, this was a common trope here. Ultimately, nothing has fundamentally changed. Still sounding like NIIMBY boomers telling the world they know best, gate keeping and explaining to the youth they know what the youth want and what the youth should have.

Has been for a long time....

...despite the best efforts of "those young kids" who know nothing because they did not have baptism by forum firestorm on when AOL was a thing.

Anecdotally, i grew up with dial up modems, ICQ, AOL, mIRC and all i can tell you about "cutting your teeth on compuserve" is that you all must watch this video from one of the best writers and video makers in the world today, to see just how slowly you have progressed:
You are all taking to yourselves.
Ironic, comical, sad? just like in an epic rap battle of history, you decide.

Much like this forum, the neighborhood groups are i volunteer with in decline, finding it near impossible to recruit "young blood", mostly because of the predominant voices in the room that are behaving much in the way this forum does. As a somewhat young person, i can tell you first hand, not only is there nothing of value for anyone to learn here through a new thread not found with a google search, the way it might be learnt is hurtful, traumatic and enough to turn someone away from wanting to do what they came here for, shoot more film. Yall have shot yourself in the leg long ago, nothing new here, but this level of still whining and ranting about how you are the center of the conversation is ludicrous at best. Its clear that you want people like me to leave you alone, not to bother you if i wont "behave" and respect your every command, then wonder why so few people use this forum. Keep talking amongst yourselves, you are making great progress here and a few of us are indeed having a good laugh.

Boy, you sound like one angry man, and not just angry at the forum and its participants (and your neighborhood groups), but at the world at large. I hope things work out for you.

CatLABS · Oct 15, 2022

faberryman said:
Boy, you sound like one angry man, and not just angry at the forum and its participants (and your neighborhood groups), but at the world at large. I hope things work out for you.

As my old timey RIT grad professors used to say, quoting Mike Goodwin:
When people respond with ad hominem, its usually because they have nothing else relevant to respond with.
QED.

Sal Santamaura · Oct 15, 2022

CatLABS said:
I volunteer on a "neighborhood council" where the vast majority of voices are boomers yelling at the world they have been at it for 30+ years so they deserve unquestioned respect and their design ideas are the only ones that could possibly considered, followed by often endless tirades about how they know what "the kids of today" want.

BS of this level has not been seen here for a while, though admittedly, i do not follow APUG very closely for some years, when i did, this was a common trope here. Ultimately, nothing has fundamentally changed. Still sounding like NIIMBY boomers telling the world they know best, gate keeping and explaining to the youth they know what the youth want and what the youth should have.

Has been for a long time....

...despite the best efforts of "those young kids" who know nothing because they did not have baptism by forum firestorm on when AOL was a thing.

Anecdotally, i grew up with dial up modems, ICQ, AOL, mIRC and all i can tell you about "cutting your teeth on compuserve" is that you all must watch this video from one of the best writers and video makers in the world today, to see just how slowly you have progressed:
You are all taking to yourselves.
Ironic, comical, sad? just like in an epic rap battle of history, you decide.

Much like this forum, the neighborhood groups are i volunteer with in decline, finding it near impossible to recruit "young blood", mostly because of the predominant voices in the room that are behaving much in the way this forum does. As a somewhat young person, i can tell you first hand, not only is there nothing of value for anyone to learn here through a new thread not found with a google search, the way it might be learnt is hurtful, traumatic and enough to turn someone away from wanting to do what they came here for, shoot more film. Yall have shot yourself in the leg long ago, nothing new here, but this level of still whining and ranting about how you are the center of the conversation is ludicrous at best. Its clear that you want people like me to leave you alone, not to bother you if i wont "behave" and respect your every command, then wonder why so few people use this forum. Keep talking amongst yourselves, you are making great progress here and a few of us are indeed having a good laugh.

Thanks, Omer, for confirming everything I posted in this thread. I've been laughing right along with you.

faberryman · Oct 15, 2022

CatLABS said:
As my old timey RIT grad professors used to say, quoting Mike Goodwin:
When people respond with ad hominem, its usually because they have nothing else relevant to respond with.
QED.

Treating my observation that you sound angry as ad hominen illustrates my observation.

CatLABS · Oct 15, 2022

faberryman said:
Treating my observation that you sound angry as ad hominen illustrates my observation.

Commentating on personal attributes to annul/ignore an argument instead of responding to the argument itself?
Ill have to check google again, but im pretty sure thats what ad hominem is, never mind, here you have it:
Fallacious ad hominem reasoning occurs where the validity of an argument is not based on deduction or syllogism, but on an attribute of the person putting it forward.
Perhaps that not QED as well?

faberryman · Oct 15, 2022

CatLABS said:
Commentating on personal attributes to annul/ignore an argument instead of responding to the argument itself?
Ill have to check google again, but im pretty sure thats what ad hominem is, never mind, here you have it:
Fallacious ad hominem reasoning occurs where the validity of an argument is not based on deduction or syllogism, but on an attribute of the person putting it forward.
Perhaps that not QED as well?

What argument? You went on a rant and I said you sounded angry. Pretty straight forward stuff.

MattKing · Oct 15, 2022

I spend a bit of time reviewing a couple of more "modern" web resources that are photography related, including 35mmc.com, who are referenced earlier. Mostly not posting - just reading.
With respect to this film, exactly the same sort of information is posted there, plus some background information about Omer/CatLabs.
It is not unusual to see a lot of comments there in response to stories about new products, or "how to" articles, or personal approaches to photography pieces. Some times the interchange can be quite lively. Most of the participants seem to either be new to film or, in many cases, have come back to film after a few years. Which seems to me the sort of market that Omer refers to as the real world. Although at least some people there do seem to be at least a bit more interested in some of the technicalities than Omer seems to think.
On 35mmc.com, the only response to the piece is one question about whether labs can process the film, plus two answers that labs can process the film.
Otherwise, no response. I guess not much interest in that particular community. Perhaps they are confused by the contradictory information presented.

BrianShaw · Oct 15, 2022

MattKing said:
Otherwise, no response. I guess not much interest in that particular community.

… or they have all the information they need and understand it.

MattKing · Oct 15, 2022

BrianShaw said:
… or they have all the information they need and understand it.

If so. I guess they don't find it interesting enough to be worthy of engagement.

BrianShaw · Oct 15, 2022

MattKing said:
If so. I guess they don't find it interesting enough to be worthy of engagement.

… or they are taking a more positive and proactive approach, like actually trying it… something photographers might think a valuable way to learn and express their art.

Alex Benjamin · Oct 15, 2022

MattKing said:
I guess not much interest in that particular community.

I believe his point is—and I agree with it, although would have stated it differently—that the very idea of "community" has become irrelevant. That's the old web, of 15-20 years ago, and it's not longer what people, especially the younger generation, are looking for. They don't want to discuss, they want to experience, they want an experience that's meaningful to them, as individuals. Hence the popularity of YouTube videos on photography. No community there. Just a combination of "try this, or try this, or try this, and eventually you'll find something you like," and "here's how you can do it at home." Advantage of this is you quickly get to the point and don't have to go through a 20-page thread with one billion unnecessary digressions.

Communities are no longer relevant to them. They have become echo chambers.

Not being critical of this one, by the way. Just stating what life is in 2022.

Huss · Oct 15, 2022

CatLABS said:
..

BS of this level has not been seen here for a while, though admittedly, i do not follow APUG very closely for some years, when i did, this was a common trope here. Ultimately, nothing has fundamentally changed. Still sounding like NIIMBY boomers telling the world they know best, gate keeping and explaining to the youth they know what the youth want and what the youth should have.
..

Exactly.

There's an awful lot 'in my day...' going on here.

Huss · Oct 15, 2022

Oldwino said:
Kid: "COOL!"

NO! You MUST have endless seas of grey, to reflect my mood thinking of time that has passed.

Huss · Oct 15, 2022

brbo said:
.. because Photrio has users that have shot films like that for years.

And then you'd waltz in and said nothing of the above is true because that film is only $6.99.

..for years...

says it all. This is how we have done it, how we do it, and how you must do it!

You, and others, still cannot get over the fact that some people do not want endless greys. Sometimes people want punchy images. Sometimes people want white whites, and black blacks. They don't want grey whites. Or mushy blacks.
If you do, that's fine. That's your call for whatever images you create. But for those who have no interest in those kind of images, other film options are very good.

Huss · Oct 15, 2022

faberryman said:
Given that assessment, I am not sure why you are here.

Perfect. And you wonder why no-one new comes here?

MattKing · Oct 16, 2022

Huss said:
..for years...

says it all. This is how we have done it, how we do it, and how you must do it!

You, and others, still cannot get over the fact that some people do not want endless greys. Sometimes people want punchy images. Sometimes people want white whites, and black blacks. They don't want grey whites. Or mushy blacks.
If you do, that's fine. That's your call for whatever images you create. But for those who have no interest in those kind of images, other film options are very good.

But what about those of us who like to be able to choose - sometimes mostly white whites and black blacks, and other times an appropriate selection from black blacks, evocative greys, and bright whites, all as the image may demand?
I did my time in photo retail - a fair long time ago. I've helped people learn all sorts of photographic things over the years. I've engaged with young and old who are interested in discovering things about photography innumerable times over many years, and the primary thing I've learned from that experience is that one needs to tailor what one communicates to what the recipient wants/needs to learn. And CatLabs comes here, publishes the same confusing and insulting market-speak shared everywhere else, and then responds with further insults when people who can make use of better information ask for it.
On this forum, CatLabs got some push-back. None of that push-back is about the film. All of it is about the seller's "marketing" and behavior.

Huss · Oct 16, 2022

MattKing said:
…
On this forum, CatLabs got some push-back. None of that push-back is about the film. All of it is about the seller's "marketing" and behavior.

c’mon Matt, so many of the comments were exactly about the film.

Personally I couldn’t care less about anyone’s marketing. If I did I wouldn’t be using Leicas.

faberryman · Oct 16, 2022

Huss said:
And you wonder why no-one new comes here?

Not really. All sorts of reasons have been advanced here and elsewhere. I am sure some are more accurate than others. I advanced one, and was told I didn't know what I was talking about, which didn't leave a whole lot of room for discussion. So it goes.

CatLABS X FILM 320 Pro now available in 35mm and 120

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