Camera or development problem?

[logan2z]

Take the film back to the lab and ask.

Unfortunately, they're not local to me so I'd need to ship it there and back - again. I may end up doing that, however, so they can evaluate it.

 

[logan2z]

Are they on the emulsion side or the base (shiny) side of the negative?

Also, it might help if you could post an image of the film strip, something like this:

View attachment 282985
(not my image)

I don't know how useful this is going to be as the streaks are very subtle on the negative but plainly visible in the scan. I ramped up the brightness of this photo to try and make them visible and circled them in red. The negative with circled areas is the one with dark vertical streaks in post #13.

FWIW, I consulted with David Odess about this and he said he doesn't think there's any way these issues were caused by a camera fault and that it is likely a processing problem. I also contacted the lab and showed them scans and they asked me to send them the negatives so they could scan them and have a look. At this point I'm not sure there's any point in doing that. The damage appears to be done and I'm obviously not going to use the lab again anyway.

 

[Pieter12]

At this point I'm not sure there's any point in doing that. The damage appears to be done and I'm obviously not going to use the lab again anyway.

Depends on how you intend to print them, if at all. If you are printing digitally, it seems like a simple thing to fix in Photo Shop. If printing wet, then it would be worthwhile to send back the negatives--it could be a washing problem.

 

[logan2z]

Depends on how you intend to print them, if at all. If you are printing digitally, it seems like a simple thing to fix in Photo Shop. If printing wet, then it would be worthwhile to send back the negatives--it could be a washing problem.

Good point, there are a couple of frames that I would like to wet print (I don't print digitally).

Maybe I'll send the negatives back and see if there's anything they can do. They said that they processed my 35mm film in the same run as the 120 (the 35mm immediately followed the 120) and the 35mm negatives have no flaws, so perhaps this is something that occurred after development.

If there's any positive here, it's that most of the frames that were affected are not really worth printing. There are only one or two affected frames that I would like to print at some point.

 

[foc]

If it was a processing problem then the marks wouldn't just be confined to the image area.
In my experience processing marks can show up all over the film, image area, edge markings, and between frames.

Maybe the best option is to send them back to the lab and see what happens.
Don't dismiss the lab because of what you think may have happened.
Often it is how the lab responds to the problem that will let you know how professional they are.

 

[Huss]

If it was a processing issue, it would be on every frame, and in between the frames.

If it was a camera issue, it would be on every frame.

Which leaves it as a film issue. Sometimes films do have quality issues - rare unless it is the garbage that Shanghai Film puts out.

 

[logan2z]

If it was a processing issue, it would be on every frame, and in between the frames.

If it was a camera issue, it would be on every frame.

Which leaves it as a film issue. Sometimes films do have quality issues - rare unless it is the garbage that Shanghai Film puts out.

I did consider the possibility of a film issue as well although, like you say, they are very rare. I do know that there have been issues with 120 film in the past related to backing papers, but this doesn't look like that.

I honestly don't know what to think at this point. What I'm fairly certain of, however, is that the lab won't be able to do much about it, but I guess there's no harm (other than lost $$$) in sending the negatives back so that they can evaluate.

 

[MattKing]

The one type of developing problem that seems more likely to me is something that leads to kinked or wrinkled film.

 

[logan2z]

The one type of developing problem that seems more likely to me is something that leads to kinked or wrinkled film.

Yup, that did cross my mind - especially given that straight line down the frame that I posted earlier in this thread. But I don't see anything obvious when looking at the negatives that would indicate they had been kinked or wrinkled. And I'm not sure how a dip-and-dunk processor like the one they use at the lab would result in such damage to the negatives.

This whole thing is a mystery to me...

 

[foc]

And I'm not sure how a dip-and-dunk processor like the one they use at the lab would result in such damage to the negatives

Do you have the name of the lab?
They must process a very large volume of B&W film to justify a dip & dunk B&W processor.

 

[Don_ih]

The streaking looks like spent or dirty developer. There's no reason to expect it to have any impact on the edges or spaces between the frames. But it also could be an emulsion problem - such as being exposed to too much humidity.
The only thing the lab can do is refund your money.

 

[logan2z]

Do you have the name of the lab.

I do, but I feel a bit uncomfortable sharing it as they're currently working diligently to figure out what might have happened here. To their credit, they've offered to cover my shipping costs to send the negatives back to them for inspection.

Re: dip and dunk, I think they do a pretty high volume of B&W. I believe it's a fairly large lab, one of the better known ones in the LA area.

 

[MattKing]

I'm absolutely sure that they would be happy if you shared their name.
Labs who work with a customer to deal with any problems that may unexpectedly arise are very valuable, and deserve to have their names spread around.

 

[logan2z]

I'm absolutely sure that they would be happy if you shared their name.
Labs who work with a customer to deal with any problems that may unexpectedly arise are very valuable, and deserve to have their names spread around.

Fair enough, the lab is 'The Icon' in Los Angeles. The lab's General Manager has been very responsive and has been working with me to try and get to the bottom of this.

 

[logan2z]

Quick follow-up: The lab made good on their offer to send me a pre-paid FedEx label to return the film to them. I have to admit I'm reluctant to ship it back, though. With my luck FedEx will lose the entire package I'm honestly not sure what good it will do anyway, I don't see how they can fix these negatives. I'm leaning towards just chalking it up to experience and developing at home going forward...

 

[foc]

Quick follow-up: The lab made good on their offer to send me a pre-paid FedEx label to return the film to them. I have to admit I'm reluctant to ship it back, though. With my luck FedEx will lose the entire package I'm honestly not sure what good it will do anyway, I don't see how they can fix these negatives. I'm leaning towards just chalking it up to experience and developing at home going forward...

Why not avail of their very generous offer?
They appear to be bending over backwards to help resolve the problem. Also, they may want to see that if they caused the problem, they want to find out what caused it so that it doesn't happen again. That way if you send back your negatives you could be helping yourself and future customers/photographers.

 

[MattKing]

Why not avail of their very generous offer?
They appear to be bending over backwards to help resolve the problem. Also, they may want to see that if they caused the problem, they want to find out what caused it so that it doesn't happen again. That way if you send back your negatives you could be helping yourself and future customers/photographers.

+1

 

[Film-Niko]

Why not avail of their very generous offer?
They appear to be bending over backwards to help resolve the problem. Also, they may want to see that if they caused the problem, they want to find out what caused it so that it doesn't happen again. That way if you send back your negatives you could be helping yourself and future customers/photographers.

Exactly!

 

[logan2z]

Why not avail of their very generous offer?
They appear to be bending over backwards to help resolve the problem. Also, they may want to see that if they caused the problem, they want to find out what caused it so that it doesn't happen again. That way if you send back your negatives you could be helping yourself and future customers/photographers.

+1

Exactly!

I guess I'm not as altruistic as you guys

Ok, you've convinced me, I'm going to send the negatives back and see what they can figure out.

 

[foc]

Great. I look forward to hearing the results
Be sure to post the labs reply, please.

 

[logan2z]

Great. I look forward to hearing the results
Be sure to post the labs reply, please.

Will do.

 

[jerrybro]

I don't know how useful this is going to be as the streaks are very subtle on the negative but plainly visible in the scan. I ramped up the brightness of this photo to try and make them visible and circled them in red. The negative with circled areas is the one with dark vertical streaks in post #13.

FWIW, I consulted with David Odess about this and he said he doesn't think there's any way these issues were caused by a camera fault and that it is likely a processing problem. I also contacted the lab and showed them scans and they asked me to send them the negatives so they could scan them and have a look. At this point I'm not sure there's any point in doing that. The damage appears to be done and I'm obviously not going to use the lab again anyway.

Processing or film. If you look at the top image you’ll see what looks like a cloud on the right side of the image that extends down to the lower image. It doesn’t show up in the border because it is subtracting density, not adding it. Since there is no exposure on the border, there is no density to subtract. I think its the film.

 

[logan2z]

Processing or film. If you look at the top image you’ll see what looks like a cloud on the right side of the image that extends down to the lower image. It doesn’t show up in the border because it is subtracting density, not adding it. Since there is no exposure on the border, there is no density to subtract. I think its the film.

My photo of the negative may have caused some confusion, there is no 'cloud' in the lower image that extends from the top image, those are artifacts of my lousy attempt to photograph the negative. I highlighted the problem areas in red in my earlier post to hopefully draw attention to the real issues.

Here's a complete scan of the bottom negative:

 

[logan2z]

I just wanted to follow up on this now that the lab has had a chance to examine the negatives:

The lab re-fixed and re-washed the negatives but only one negative showed any improvement. That negative had some 'residue' on it that showed up as a splotch in the scans (and would obviously affect a wet print) that they were able to wash off. Unfortunately, the others were not improved after re-processing

The fact that there was some gunk on one of the frames caused by the lab's processing doesn't give me the utmost confidence, but I can't say definitively if the other issues were caused by them, a bad batch of film or something else. I guess I may never know for sure.

I have to give them kudos for spending the time to fully investigate and perform some reprocessing of the film, but it looks like all of my future processing will be done at home.

 

[mshchem]

Well I gave up on mailing film away when Kodak quit the pre-paid processing mailer (2 1st class stamps to mail away, Kodak used your own return address as the label)
Buy a couple Paterson tanks, and the world's easiest, longest lived, film developer, Rodinal. A little bottle of Ilford rapid fix and a wee bottle of LFN wetting agent. I love developing film.