C-42 is Kodak's home-version of C-41?

[MattKing]

In fact, you cannot restore the true color of a properly processed negative by any digital post processing. It's a delusion.

If I understand it correctly, it is possible to correct crossover digitally by post-processing the different colour channels in different ways - primarily by changing their contrast in differing amounts.
I doubt that it is possible to do this automatically, and would most likely require post processing knowledge and experience beyond what I possess, but it is possible, just not easy.

 

[koraks]

Chemistry cannot be the cause

Well; you're not using cd4 but cd2, right? That is very likely to cause some color issues.
But in the end what matters is if you're happy with the outcome. If you are, everything is fine!

 

[mohmad khatab]

If I understand it correctly, it is possible to correct crossover digitally by post-processing the different colour channels in different ways - primarily by changing their contrast in differing amounts.
I doubt that it is possible to do this automatically, and would most likely require post processing knowledge and experience beyond what I possess, but it is possible, just not easy.

You are absolutely right, my friend
God bless you.

 

[mohmad khatab]

You are absolutely right, my friend
God bless you.

And what is the problem in using (CD3) or (CD2) with this recipe?
- The author of the recipe wrote that it can be used until (CD1) or (Tss) and he is an older developer even than (CD2), and accordingly the use of (CD2) - has no side effects at all, as long as it is used in the correct parallel quantity. correctly .
- I am using developer (CD2) with Stephen recipe and I get very good results, there are absolutely no problems with this developer, it is a strong and very effective component and causes to raise the pH slightly and this requires that the person is careful when adjusting the number Only strictly.
- There was a big problem that occurs because of this element and is the occurrence of oil spots floating on the surface of the solution, but a friend from Ukraine called (Saint Vova) told me that I have to dissolve the substance (CD2) before mixing in 50 ml water in the form of Solo ,,, and I already did this and the problem disappeared for good, thank God ,,
- I am currently thinking about preparing the process developer (ECP-2) - as it depends on the (CD2) component, I want to test this developer after I successfully tested the process developer (ECN-2) and I was advised by my respected teacher, Austrian engineer / Rudi of course It depends on the CD3 component and was very successful and very economical in terms of cost.

 

[bnxvs]

1. We are discussing a color negative process (like C-41) in this thread, right? And corresponding negative films. Not ECN-2, and especially not E-6.
2. There is a difference between CD-1 and CD-2. Yes, both of these substances are color developing substances. But, CD-2 is designed primarily for processing color reversible films. It is interchangeable with CD-3 (approximately 1: 2). But it is not compatible in the correct process with CD-1 or CD-4 (if this isn't a cross-process).
3. We cannot draw conclusions about the quality of the processed film, since you didn't do reference processing in the “right” process (C-41) and you do not have control strips. But color balance disturbances are clearly visible. Therefore, by default, it is worth considering that errors are precisely in the composition of chemistry and / or in the processing process itself.

 

[mohmad khatab]

1. We are discussing a color negative process (like C-41) in this thread, right? And corresponding negative films. Not ECN-2, and especially not E-6.
2. There is a difference between CD-1 and CD-2. Yes, both of these substances are color developing substances. But, CD-2 is designed primarily for processing color reversible films. It is interchangeable with CD-3 (approximately 1: 2). But it is not compatible in the correct process with CD-1 or CD-4 (if this isn't a cross-process).
3. We cannot draw conclusions about the quality of the processed film, since you didn't do reference processing in the “right” process (C-41) and you do not have control strips. But color balance disturbances are clearly visible. Therefore, by default, it is worth considering that errors are precisely in the composition of chemistry and / or in the processing process itself.

I strongly respect your point of view.
And I agree with you temporarily so that I can provide an analytical study proven by laboratory experiments and proven by the results and practical comparisons.

 

[bnxvs]

No problem. Thanks.
I was just as wrong when designing my process. Therefore, I clearly see some specific signs of deviation of the results. Just already trained eye.



Here is an example of one of my developments with incorrect chemistry. Pay attention to the characteristic excess of purple, the distorted green color and the general imbalance.

And in contrast - the correct development:

 

[mohmad khatab]

No problem. Thanks.
I was just as wrong when designing my process. Therefore, I clearly see some specific signs of deviation of the results. Just already trained eye.


View attachment 247385
Here is an example of one of my developments with incorrect chemistry. Pay attention to the characteristic excess of purple, the distorted green color and the general imbalance.

And in contrast - the correct development:
View attachment 247386

These are images developed by the developer (ECn-2) ,,
And I find that they are totally OK pictures, this is my point of view.
but in fact ,,
I am planning to conduct a serious and real study, but this will need some tools and some equipment. For example, I want to buy some CD1 material that I do not have right now, and also the test strips.
By and large, let's dream.

 

[Rudeofus]

If you start with a selection of fresh film, reasonably well maintained cameras with sharp lenses, accurate exposure settings and whatnot, then I see a point in using a very well maintained process. You will be able to predict very accurately, what kind of result you get with a given film, and this may well help your artistic expression. However, you have to be able to afford it. And you have to make a strong point, that some piece of art really benefits from accurate and predictable colors, especially, if the much higher cost limits you in several other ways.

 

[mohmad khatab]

If you start with a selection of fresh film, reasonably well maintained cameras with sharp lenses, accurate exposure settings and whatnot, then I see a point in using a very well maintained process. You will be able to predict very accurately, what kind of result you get with a given film, and this may well help your artistic expression. However, you have to be able to afford it. And you have to make a strong point, that some piece of art really benefits from accurate and predictable colors, especially, if the much higher cost limits you in several other ways.

Well my teacher ..
- These tools and equipment can be managed in several stages, and this may need some time in order to prepare these tools, equipment and materials ... It is a project in the long term..

 

[LSV]

My working formula for the color negative process is:
(per 500 ml of working solution):

Distilled water 350ml (50-60 degrees C)
-------------------------------------------------------
Trilon B (EDTA-2Na) ...........................1g
Hydroxylamine Sulfate ........................1g
...

Hello!
I tried your recipe. I took the bleach and fixer from the book: PCS_Darkroom_Formulary.pdf (page 27-28)

But, I did 500 ml of bleach and fixer.
I took boiled water.

Stop Bath:
Acetic acid + water = 2% solution Acetic acid

Bleach:
Potassium nitrate - 12.5 g
Potassium ferricyanide - 15 g
Potassium bromide - 6 g
Boric acid - 2.5 g
Borax - 0.5 g
Water to - 500 ml

Fixer:
Sodium thiosulphate cryst. - 100 g
Potassium metabisulfite - 15 g
Water to - 500 ml

Processing Procedure C-41 (t = 38°C):

1) Color Dev - 3.15 min
2) Stop Bath - 30 sec
3) Wash - 2.30 min
4) Bleach - 2.30 min
5) Wash - 1.30 min
6) Fix - 6.0 min
7) Wash - 3.30 min
8) Stabiliser - 1.30 min
9) Dry

I got the negatives and scanned them with my smartphone. After inversion I got frames blue-green.
Do you know what the reason is?

I do not know how to insert a picture. I give links:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fjg7H2RSBmUuYpX_XIpMSSZsUF-yWSJp/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jG3y-f1zHzDr723FHlVp1jq_PoSaqhGK/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bAl09Y5Fg5UVRdhC-cWHxEeGanzuZV1x/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11rho9z0AlKEMJ_wh4pOULDplhTWLd5Oj/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuzEq6w5MrkJwuUwKfzsCx6z-aLz9Cim/view?usp=sharing

 

[Donald Qualls]

The cyan cast you see after inversion is normal, because your inversion process doesn't correct for the orange mask in the negatives. If you use scanning software, or a color negative specific inversion routine, you'll get (more) correct color. There's a process you can do in Photoshop or GIMP -- as I recall, you sample the color from the rebate between frames, fill a layer with that color, set the layer mode to multiply, and that will correct out the mask (which also has an imagewise component, so you can't correct it with simple color controls).

 

[LSV]

The cyan cast you see after inversion is normal, because your inversion process doesn't correct for the orange mask in the negatives. If you use scanning software, or a color negative specific inversion routine, you'll get (more) correct color. There's a process you can do in Photoshop or GIMP -- as I recall, you sample the color from the rebate between frames, fill a layer with that color, set the layer mode to multiply, and that will correct out the mask (which also has an imagewise component, so you can't correct it with simple color controls).

Thank you for your answer!!!
I didn't know about the orange mask!
I will try it in GIMP.

 

[Donald Qualls]

@LSV I'm not certain of that technique -- you could Google it to be certain, but it absolutely requires a sample of the unexposed, developed film in the same scan (to ensure same exposure and corrections).

 

[koraks]

That bleach formula is kind of odd, with the nitrate in there. Also the buffering is ok I guess, but not really necessary. The fixer seems underpowered to me; I'd rather go with ammonium thiosulfate. But at 38C you may get away with it.

Make sure to wash the film well between your acetic acid stop bath and a ferricyanide bleach as you may run into color problems if you don't.

 

[MattKing]

set the layer mode to multiply

I think the method Donald refers to uses "divide" rather than "multiply", but I agree that you should research it directly.
I wonder if "multiply" will give you something really weird and fun!

 

[RPC]

I would extend the stop bath to :60 to be safe. This should be a clearing bath as well as a stop bath, add 10 grams/liter of sodium sulfte to your 2% acetic acid stop bath.

I use a ferricyanide bleach with a 5 minute wash between bleach and fixer. If any bleach is left in the film when it goes into the fixer, it can oxidize the fixer and cause unremovable sulferization in the emulsion.

The bleach is overly complex. Just use 80 grams of ferricyanide and 20 grams of potassium bromide to make 1 liter of bleach. Bleach for 3 minutes at 100F.

If you can get Kodak C-41 fixer, that is probably the easiest and most economical way to go.

The developer formula will likely need a pH adjustment. The formula I posted on page 1 is the absolute best formula I've come across, I don't even bother checking the pH and get perfect results.

 

[LSV]

I think the method Donald refers to uses "divide" rather than "multiply", but I agree that you should research it directly.
I wonder if "multiply" will give you something really weird and fun!

I would extend the stop bath to :60 to be safe. This should be a clearing bath as well as a stop bath, add 10 grams/liter of sodium sulfte to your 2% acetic acid stop bath.

I use a ferricyanide bleach with a 5 minute wash between bleach and fixer. If any bleach is left in the film when it goes into the fixer, it can oxidize the fixer and cause unremovable sulferization in the emulsion.

The bleach is overly complex. Just use 80 grams of ferricyanide and 20 grams of potassium bromide to make 1 liter of bleach. Bleach for 3 minutes at 100F.

If you can get Kodak C-41 fixer, that is probably the easiest and most economical way to go.

The developer formula will likely need a pH adjustment. The formula I posted on page 1 is the absolute best formula I've come across, I don't even bother checking the pH and get perfect results.

To everyone who answered - Thank you very much!
I will be trying different developers, fixers, and bleaches.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I think the method Donald refers to uses "divide" rather than "multiply", but I agree that you should research it directly.
I wonder if "multiply" will give you something really weird and fun!

You're probably correct. I've been getting good results by finding the preset in Vuescan that best matches the film I'm scanning (Vuescan updates literally every week or two to add support for various scanners -- why don't they add film profiles that match what you can buy now, as well as supporting obsolete films you might be scanning when you convert negatives from the '80s?) -- with the result that I never got around to trying the layer method. Fortunately, it's easy enough to check; once you have the layer filled with the mask color, you can try different draw modes until you get one that produces a good balance in the image.

 

[LSV]

You're probably correct. I've been getting good results by finding the preset in Vuescan that best matches the film I'm scanning (Vuescan updates literally every week or two to add support for various scanners -- why don't they add film profiles that match what you can buy now, as well as supporting obsolete films you might be scanning when you convert negatives from the '80s?) -- with the result that I never got around to trying the layer method. Fortunately, it's easy enough to check; once you have the layer filled with the mask color, you can try different draw modes until you get one that produces a good balance in the image.

Thank you Donald Qualls!
I used VueScan and and the result is better.
I understood what to strive for!
It is necessary to remove the orange backing.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_V1itzh1gv1CgYkRZ24_5la4uIJMhUM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R209RCD5aEegqL8YR895FJJWhDaOaXyZ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fmCq1_IqpyrewL8SrF__byySq6TtoV1G/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F9vRC5iG5ab1p3pxj5TLSgZN_bzCnzjB/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17tF_liTGR6J1v9JpDHWoZRv2RXtc8iNM/view?usp=sharing

 

[Donald Qualls]

I agree -- MUCH better. There's still some cyan in the last three, but I think it's the color of the light rather than a problem with the film or development. Snowy scenes, especially with very low sun (so they're lit mainly by a clear sky) tend this way enough that there are specific filters for this kind of light.

 

[bnxvs]

Thank you Donald Qualls!
I used VueScan and and the result is better.
I understood what to strive for!
It is necessary to remove the orange backing.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_V1itzh1gv1CgYkRZ24_5la4uIJMhUM/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R209RCD5aEegqL8YR895FJJWhDaOaXyZ/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fmCq1_IqpyrewL8SrF__byySq6TtoV1G/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1F9vRC5iG5ab1p3pxj5TLSgZN_bzCnzjB/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17tF_liTGR6J1v9JpDHWoZRv2RXtc8iNM/view?usp=sharing

I'd recommend using EDTA iron salt bleach. It's fairly easy to make at home. Also, you have not specified the processing mode for your film. My recipe is tested primarily for continuous agitation and normal temperature conditions.
p.s. I'd not recommend you to use a stop bath at all. With Fe(III)EDTA bleach, it isn't needed, but with ferricyanide bleach, it is also dangerous (can potentially lead to cyanogenesis).
As far as I understand, you are from Russia - you can write to me in the PM if you need advice.

 

[LSV]

I'd recommend using EDTA iron salt bleach. It's fairly easy to make at home. Also, you have not specified the processing mode for your film. My recipe is tested primarily for continuous agitation and normal temperature conditions.
p.s. I'd not recommend you to use a stop bath at all. With Fe(III)EDTA bleach, it isn't needed, but with ferricyanide bleach, it is also dangerous (can potentially lead to cyanogenesis).
As far as I understand, you are from Russia - you can write to me in the PM if you need advice.

Hello!
Thanks for answering! Sorry for my English (Google translator helps).
I don't even doubt your developer's recipe. I doubt my bleach and fixer.
I made a color film developing machine. The mixing process takes place constantly. Temperature 38°С is maintained by the temperature controller.
Later I will definitely contact you.
Here is a video of my film developing machine:

Description of the film developing machine (English subtitles available):


Homemade film developing machine. Process C-41, part 1.


part 2.


part 3.

 

[bnxvs]

Весьма годный процесс! По отбелке дам рецептуру. Ничего сложного. А фиксаж в принципе вообще любой "быстрый" пойдет. Простая смесь тиосульфата натрия и хлорида аммония прекрасно работает.
p.s. Sorry for the offtopic on Russian

 

[LSV]

Continuation of my post No. 86 (Sorry for my English - Google translate is my assistant )

The first time I photographed the film with my smartphone - the results were disgusting!
I thought my bleaches were not working well. Not - it's mysmartphone that distorts the colors on the film. After that, I made a third Fe(III)EDTA based bleach. And the third time I got a bad result.
After that, I took all three films to the laboratory, where they scanned the film on a professional scanner. And the results surprised me! All threebleaches worked well. That's what it means to trust a smartphone))
But I found bleach number 3 (Fe(III)EDTA) to work best.
Here are my results: (I divided all three experiments )

Film: Kodak Color 200.
Developer and Stabilizer - used in all three processes. All reagents (Dev, Bleach, Fix, Stab) for 500 ml.
Developer and starter : post No.54 (user bnxvs)
Stabiliser:
Formalin (37% solution) - 2.5 ml
Photo Flo 200 - 2.5 ml
Water to - 500 ml
Stop Bath:
Acetic acid + water = 2% solution Acetic acid

All Processing Procedure C-41 (t = 38°C and constant agitation ):

//******************************************
Film No. 1
//******************************************
Bleach: (№ 1)
Potassium nitrate - 12.5 g
Potassium ferricyanide - 15 g
Potassium bromide - 6 g
Boric acid - 2.5 g
Borax - 0.5 g
Water to - 500 ml

Fixer: (No. 1)
Sodium thiosulphate cryst. - 100 g
Potassium metabisulfite - 15 g
Water to - 500 ml

1) Color Dev - 3.15 min
2) Stop Bath - 30 sec
3) Wash - 2.30 min
4) Bleach - 2.30 min
5) Wash - 1.30 min
6) Fix - 6.0 min
7) Wash - 3.30 min
8) Stabiliser - 1.30 min
9) Dry

The result is here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wfau4nNRVy4yHvJd7

//******************************************
Film No. 2
//******************************************
Bleach: (№ 2)
Potassium Ferricyanide - 40 g
Potassium Bromide - 10 g
Water to 500ml

Fixer: (No. 1)
Sodium thiosulphate cryst. - 100 g
Potassium metabisulfite - 15 g
Water to - 500 ml

1) Color Dev - 3.15 min
2) Stop Bath - 30 sec
3) Wash - 2.30 min
4) Bleach - 2.30 min
5) Wash - 1.30 min
6) Fix - 6.0 min
7) Wash - 3.30 min
8) Stabiliser - 1.30 min
9) Dry

The result is here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wzj5JouQQCLUHKnW8

//******************************************
Film No. 3
//******************************************
Bleach: (№ 3)
Water ... 300 ml
Fe(III)EDTA ... 65 g
Potassium Bromide ... 55 g
Ammonia solution 25% ... 10 ml
Potassium Nitrate ... 15 g
Acetic essence (70%) ... 15 ml (10-15 ml)
Water to 500ml
filter (Fe(III)EDTA gives a large sediment )
pH - 5.75
pH between 5.7 - 6.0 (regulate Acetic essence)

Fixer: (No. 2)
Sodium Thiosulfate - 100 g
Ammonium Chloride - 43 g
Water to 500ml

1) Color Dev - 3.15 min
2) Bleach - 5.0 min
3) Wash - 3.0 min
4) Fix - 5.0 min
5) Wash - 3.0 min
6) Stabiliser - 1.0 min
7) Dry

The result is here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/TtcseyLf6tXTHGWU8

//******************************************
White fields on the sides of the frame - the camera shutter froze in the cold (-15°C). Closing slowly at the end.

Here are photos and negatives taken by my smartphone (bad photos): https://photos.app.goo.gl/ANtN2Q6kcLwJwuPK8
Sorry to write a lot.
Special thanks to user bnxvs for the help!