Buying from Svema

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antonio_b

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perhaps since Yegor knows a bit more about "computer" stuff, he accepts the international payments.

this should not be a problem, it has been possible to wire money in a diversity of ways since long. Years ago I paid Vartanian of Arax, and a repairman in Dniepropetrovsk, in WebMoney and they were also proposing Paypal through a man in the middle. SWIFT works on any ukrainian bank account. Cultural aspect? the familiarity (or lack of) with SWIFT wires.

how this company operates internally- the guy behind "tibosha" mail is a clown, he tried to sell me magnetic tape for flight data recorders at 200$/km when I asked for regular "A" and "Б" types because "it matches the standards for both types", then he declined my request to provide Dmytro's number in a rude manner.
I dealt with the other email address :smile: ... as for now the company does not "operate", ie. : there's no formal company at the payment level. Instead some guys are operating on their own. But again I am fine with that.
 
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antonio_b

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a bit off topic but not completely. I spooled a length of 120 of the Svema-100 bulk roll, grabbed my Moskva-5

moskva-5.jpg



since I have a bottle of replenished D23 variant and one of 12% fresh borax I developed in two bath: 12mn + 10mn.


raw0001-pos_1024.jpg


(I often have problems to frame correctly when I use the Moskva-5 portrait mode...)

raw0002-pos_1024.jpg



raw0003-pos_1024.jpg


raw0008-pos_1024.jpg
 

MCB18

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Seems like this might be more like my efforts to sell film than I realized. I get bulk film, cut to 120 size, and pack by hand. From what I’ve gathered, it seems like a few of folks have bought a master roll of Agfa/Tasma/something, and similar to me, are finishing it for people by hand, or maybe with minimal machines. It seems like they have a 35mm cassette machine, and possibly a slitting machine. The sheets are probably done by hand, though, I can’t imagine they have a sheet film cutting machine that allows such flexibility for this many small orders of different sizes.
 

LeoniD

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as for now the company does not "operate", ie. : there's no formal company at the payment level. Instead some guys are operating on their own.
Nah, judging by prozorro/dzo, they were quite active before the war, and they still participate in government procurement ("тендер", idk the right English term) at least for magnetic tape, judging by the "tibosha" guy's words

the familiarity (or lack of)
Most likely.
 

LeoniD

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Seems like this might be more like my efforts to sell film than I realized. I get bulk film, cut to 120 size, and pack by hand. From what I’ve gathered, it seems like a few of folks have bought a master roll of Agfa/Tasma/something, and similar to me, are finishing it for people by hand, or maybe with minimal machines. It seems like they have a 35mm cassette machine, and possibly a slitting machine. The sheets are probably done by hand, though, I can’t imagine they have a sheet film cutting machine that allows such flexibility for this many small orders of different sizes.

Kind of, but mostly no. They still have freshly made cans and cassettes, so they have at least one of the bad boys on pic 1 (yes, I know, 3 pixels. It's the highest res on the Internet). Next, they've bought entire magnetic tape facility in 2020, so pics 2("magnetic tape cutting facility"),3 ("веерная резка магнитной ленты") and possibly 4("takeup spool of coating machine"), although I'm not entirely sure it's a magnetic tape coater. Next, new batches of film are packaged in boxes with date/batch/expiration stamped on them instead of handwriting, so they probably resurrected pic 5("automatic film packaging line"). Maybe also pic 6("rollfilm packaging line"). Furthermore, Svema had its own special design bureau and a branch (the biggest one, probably) of GOSNIIHIMFOTOPROEKT, the institute that developed new films and was equipped with machinery for small batch production, including for cutting custom sizes of sheet film. Pics 7-9 (7-"Shostka branch of GOSNIIHIMFOTOPROEKT. Pilot plant (Опытная установка)", 8-"Machine for film gluing", 9-Shostka branch of GOSNIIHIMFOTOPROEKT, QC of TV tapes). The plant was two times bigger than Kodak's Rochester plant btw, a bit less densely "packed" though. Bonus, some more photos just because I have them. 10-coaters, 11-PET film manufacturing (looks a bit like Kodak's facility from "smarter every day" video, isn't it?), 12-gelatine manufacturing facility

Edit: pics are all mixed up on mobile, H7pAH... is supposed to be 1, 2- r2swjw...,3- LOWfr..., 4- 000, 5- bXbAP..., 6- evoFx, 7- _vVqA..., 8- rghev, 9- aexo-..., 10- 5XyzH..., 11- RVeY4..., 12- KS0do...
 

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MCB18

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I hope we get to see the actual facilities they have now, and maybe in higher quality pictures that weren’t taken with a potato lol. I think someone mentioned trying to take a tour, I hope that happens at some point.
 
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antonio_b

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From what I’ve gathered, it seems like a few of folks have bought a master roll of Agfa/Tasma/something, and similar to me, are finishing it for people by hand, or maybe with minimal machines.

there's an online shop here, offering also Astrum in 35mm:
https://grainyvibes.no/collections/katalog?sort_by=manual&filter.p.vendor=Astrum
the fun is that in the description of these canisters, foto-64, foto-100, foto-200, foto-400, there is a :
"Det er litt uklart hvor filmen faktisk kommer i fra" = it's a bit unclear where the film actually comes from ....
 

LeoniD

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I think someone mentioned trying to take a tour

Yeah, that was me. But alas, "не на часі" strikes again, idk when the tour will happen. I wouldn't get your hopes too high tho, most of pictured equipment was likely sold for scrap, Astrum couldn't save everything. It is unclear if GOSNII... was a separate structure from Svema in the 90s. If yes, then there might be one last film coater left in Shostka, probably suitable for color too. If no-same fate as the rest
 

LeoniD

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this should not be a problem, it has been possible to wire money in a diversity of ways since long. Years ago I paid Vartanian of Arax, and a repairman in Dniepropetrovsk, in WebMoney and they were also proposing Paypal through a man in the middle. SWIFT works on any ukrainian bank account. Cultural aspect? the familiarity (or lack of) with SWIFT wires.


I dealt with the other email address :smile: ... as for now the company does not "operate", ie. : there's no formal company at the payment level. Instead some guys are operating on their own. But again I am fine with that.

So, two things. First, internal orders are shipped from company's name(pic). So again, it's not "just some guys". Second, I spoke with Dmitry, he was very surprised to put it lightly, asked the name of that guy and promised to take action and that this will never happen again. We'll see how true that is when I'll order magnetic tape again, but knowing Dmitriy everything will be ok
 

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antonio_b

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internal orders are shipped from company's name(pic) ... I spoke with Dmitry

me, in the communication prior to shipment, it was never a company email, nor even emails signed with a name, and the payment was to this Yegor Yaroshko bank account in Kiev, not to a TOV Astrum Ltd. That's why I was wondering about the formal/juridical status.

The parcel I got was sent as from a private person, Dmitro Varenyk. Giving the linguistic political chaos in Ukraine, is that the same Dima than your Dmitry ? A Dmitro Mixailovich Varenik is on records as director of a TOV Poliximfoto registered in 2004, in Shotska, and also beneficiary at a TOV Virdzhin Ukrsystem, besides beneficiary at TOV Astrum Ltd: https://opendatabot.ua/p/3XZJ768

the formal/juridical status in itself is not important to me, but only to know that I deal with the real people.
Note again that, for me a parcel from a private person is better. In this case if it had been sent as from a company "TOV Astrum Ltd" and with a commercial invoice inside, instead of a total 106€ that I paid, the cost had been 150€ (+25% VAT + processing fee).
So if I was communicating with someone who actually works at Astrum, then nice, and that he ships to private persons abroad as a private person, even better. Btw. that's how Gevorg Vartanian of ARAX used to do.

pakke_deklar_m.jpg
 

MCB18

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I spoke with Dmitry

He is responding to messages again? That’s good! I was working with Vasiliy Kasabutskiy, very responsive, good communication, and let me know what to expect when ordering. Was very responsive to questions and feedback. Film will hopefully arrive soon. So far, 9/10 experience. Only thing that would make it better is more up to date info, but with everything going on, I’m just happy that they are still getting orders out, and maintaining the website seems like it is a lower priority right now.
 
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antonio_b

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as for the sheets:
it's indeed aerial film, very thin like the 35mm and 120 and with the bend of the roll. Not notched but a corner is cut.
Inside the black plastic pouch, a paper enveloppe around the sheets. Reminded me of paper wraps of soviet Svema. I have some and checked. Indeed that's it:

svema_sort_papir.jpg
 

MCB18

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as for the sheets:
it's indeed aerial film, very thin like the 35mm and 120 and with the bend of the roll. Not notched but a corner is cut.
Inside the black plastic pouch, a paper enveloppe around the sheets. Reminded me of paper wraps of soviet Svema. I have some and checked. Indeed that's it:

View attachment 338420

Is that 35mm or 120? I’m curious to see what the banking paper looks like if it’s 120.
 
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antonio_b

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Is that 35mm or 120? I’m curious to see what the banking paper looks like if it’s 120.

a roll of 120 colour reversal. The baking paper is thicker than the wrapping:

photo_2023-05-11_22-21-49.jpg


the wrapping paper is not opaque enough. See with a small torch:

photo_2023-05-11_22-21-50 (2).jpg


photo_2023-05-11_22-21-50.jpg


the backing paper with the torch, there's only one small pin of light through in this case:

photo_2023-05-11_22-21-50 (3).jpg



I always keep spools and backing paper of 120, have plenty. but I will buy backing paper if they sell it.
 

LeoniD

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He is responding to messages again?

At least regarding magnetic tape, yes.
Giving the linguistic political chaos in Ukraine
I used "Dmitriy" because he was mentioned this way on this site before. It's the same as "Kiev" vs "Kyiv", one is transliterated from russian, other-from Ukrainian. And there's no chaos, Ukrainian names and proper names should just be transliterated from Ukrainian spelling. Answering your question, yes, it's the same person.
 

MCB18

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a roll of 120 colour reversal. The baking paper is thicker than the wrapping:

View attachment 338425

the wrapping paper is not opaque enough. See with a small torch:

View attachment 338426

View attachment 338427

the backing paper with the torch, there's only one small pin of light through in this case:

View attachment 338428


I always keep spools and backing paper of 120, have plenty. but I will buy backing paper if they sell it.

I asked about it, but they said that they have a minimum order quantity. If I am understanding correctly, it is $7 for 15.8 m of 63mm (1 sq. m) of black/red light proof paper, but minimum order is $1000. I told them that it could be worthwhile to offer it along with 120 size film, but I didn’t ask about it any farther. I don’t need 2.2 km of backing paper, lol. Would be great if they offered smaller quantities of it though.
 
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antonio_b

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Ukrainian names and proper names should just be transliterated from Ukrainian spelling.
this statement calls for a bit of explanation.... I don't know how to do it in very few words. It's very simple but cultural facts can take some words to be explained.... and it's somewhat off-topic relatively to film, but on-topic relatively to Ukraine. So:

Ukrainians use Париж for Paris. Пари would a correct transliteration, there is no "ж" and only difficulty is the "р" in french is guttural. Final "s" is almost never pronounced in french. English does a butchery, because "a" in english is not "a" but a diphthong. If you say Paris in english to a French, at first he will not understand, he will hear something like "pèrisse". I am born in a french city named Privas .... the "i" is an i, the "a" is an a, the "s" is mute. In cyrillic it would be, prosto: Прива . I can't imagine what phonetic mess english language can do of that.
you don't yourself apply the rule that you want others to use, as Париж illustrates. And Рим for Roma....

Since the 2010 or so, there has been a strong online activism like Wikipedia articles rewrites and lobbying at media centers, from anglospheric activists and some ukrainians, in order to enforce specifically in the case of ukrainian toponyms and proper names a rule of supposed correct transliteration, that themselves Americans, Brits, Ukrainians/Galicians don't respect the other way around with other people/nations.
See:

- Hasselblad, the famous camera manufacturer, are based in Sweden, city Göteborg. English says Gothenburg ....
- København, the capital of Danmark, english says Copenhagen. In fact already over Øresund the name changes, because in swedish it is Köpenhamn...
- Roma, capital of Italy. English says Rome
- Venezia, english says Venice
- the capital of Bayern: München, english says Munich.
etc.
---

moreover the transliteration pushed agressivelly like this, causes weird things. In french, the "h" is mute. So take Сергей. in ukrainian the "г" is softer and different than in russian, and some "smart" Ukrainians and Brits/Americans decided to transliterate with a "h" instead of a "g". English, german, do pronounce the "h", specially german does a strong "h", but in french "h" is mute....
So these propagandists want all languages written in latin alphabet to use, Serhii, Pavlohrad, etc, the fun is that in french it becomes Seri, hryvnya -> rivnia , Golodomor -> olodomor, Pavlograd -> pavlorad, etc.
If the "g" is kept in french, then it's phonetically better. So you see why the transliteration in latin alphabet is in fact an anglicism.
-----

every language/country/culture uses its own way to name places due to History and phonetical rules. You know that Polaks say Kijow, Lwow. You know that Tarnopol is named so, because the city was founded by Polak Jan Tarnowski after he defeated Tatars there. Tarno + + greek root "polis" (city) = Tarnopol. Why on hearth would Galicians turn the "pol" that is quite ubiquitous into "pil" always amazes me. Metropole-> metropil, etc. kurwa!

a photo i took in Eastern Hungary, outside city Nyiregihaza. Friends of mine were living there. Local hungarians insist Ungvar is a hungarian city. Ungvar is Uzhgorod, as the signs says. I have funny anecdotes about ukrainians by the border there but this would take too much space.
This name makes me always laugh, because місто (=polish miasto, курва! ) seriously: the regime is banning russian but there is a misto "gorod na reke Uzh". Like "kudi ti idesh? - do mista (Uzh)gorod" Funny eh?

ungvar.jpg



- the capital of Finland, in norwegian/swedish/danish it's Helsingfors. I buy fly tickets Oslo-Helsingfors or ferry tickets Stockholm-Åbo, and not Oslo-Helsinki or Stockholm-Turku. Because Finland was just part of Sweden for five centuries, and all old cities were founded by Swedes: Uleåborg (Oulu), Tammersfors (Tampere), Åbo (Turku), etc. Swedish is official co-language in Finland because something like 15% swedish minority.
- Germans say Parisss , with a "s", but as told there's no "s" in french. They say Venedig for Venezia, Krakau for Krakow
- Bruxelles/Brussels french-dutch. when you wait a train for Tournai the platform may show Doornik.
- Flemish uses "Rijsel" for the city of Lille. There was a time is you were not a local from Belgium/Northern France, driving on the external ring of Bruxelles you would not find the exit to Lille because only Rijsel was shown. Similar for roads signs in Flanders showing Bergen for the city Mons and the other way around Wallons don't drive to Antwerpen but to Anvers, even not to Hertogenbosch in Netherlands but to Bois-Le-Duc.
----


I can show you why it is "Kiev" in romance languages and languages influenced by them.
Giovanni dal Piano dei Carpini, a franciscan monk who was ambassador for pope Innocent IV to the Khan of the Mongols and Tatars in 1246. The Horde had raided large chunks of Eastern Europe and arrived by the realms of Caroligian kingdoms. So the Pope send an ambassy headed by Piano dei Carpini.
online digitalized version of a 1838 work, explaining the sources, etc, and providing the full text. In that PDF scroll for instance down to page 352 :

709.us.archive.org/33/items/relationdesmong00avezgoog/relationdesmong00avezgoog.pdf

Jean_de_Plan_carpin.jpg


"pervenimus in Kioviam" = we arrived in Kiovia. See: 800 years ago, scholars, in latin, used the form Kiov. There are older texts using Kiov, inside a corpus of chronicles kept in France, under the collective name of "Chroniques de Champagne" from the years 1050, at the time the court of Henri Ist of France traveled to Kiov for the marriage with Ana Yaroslavna....
Over the centuries name varied only a bit: Kiov/Kiev

btw, talking of Ana Yaroslavna, here is the norse telling ("saga") about the life of king Harald Hardråde (1015-1066) who with his cousin Olaf, flew Norway (local wars Paganists/Christians) to Garðaríki, which was the name of the Rurikid kingdom:

Sagan af Haraldi harðráða

it mentions "Jarizleif konung" ... king Jarizleif, also Jariz-Leif like composed Jaris + Leif. This is Yaroslav the Wise. The king with the three daughters. One (Elizabeta, Ellisif in norse) was married to a Norseman/Norwegian (Harald), Ana was married to a French (Henri). There are so two sets of chronicles, small one in norse, bigger ones (due to the weight of latin and Carolingian kingdoms) in latin. The latin as seen uses Kiov and Russ/Rusc, the norse uses a specific scandinavian naming: Garðaríki for all the kingdom, Hólmgarð for Novgorod, no Kiov but Konungrsgarð (textually: king's town). "garð" is probably the origin of the "gorod/grad" word for "city" and hence Novgorod. All this is the Rurikid/Varjag line. Yaroslav was a "cousin". Rurikid nobility still used norse language besides slavonic and some greek for the relations with Miklagarði (Byzance).
Miasto instead is slavonic, stems probably from Malopolska, kurwa.
 

LeoniD

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I'm not gonna write a detailed reply for this, because I don't want hundreds of offtopic posts, and, to put it shortly, apples to oranges. Plus it will be pointless trying to prove something anyway because you call the desire to distance from everything russian, including spelling, "propaganda". What's your opinion on Odessa vs Odesa then?
Local hungarians insist Ungvar is a hungarian city.
Yeah, I know. That is also why naming is important, thanks for illustrating. And what a wonderful illustration that is, considering hungary tried to get a piece of Ukraine twice in ten years

Btw, mods, "kurwa"/"курва" is something inbetween "f*ck", "sl*t" and a comma, and in places like
stems probably from Malopolska, kurwa.
It is used just to use it, in a similar manner to a schoolboy that just learned a new swearword
 
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Minox

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I purchased some 40 rolls of 35mm from Svema, in 25/64/100/400 ASA. Paid by Paypal to an individual in Kiev, and I got the package really fast, in about 6 days. No import tax or anything else to be paid when package was released from the customs, which was kind of surprising (anything coming from outside the EU is taxed accordingly). All in all, the transaction and message exchange went ok, without nasty surprises.

Film proved to be all right, although lately I have encountered severe fogging on some rolls recently shot. I am yet to shoot the 25 and 64 versions, waiting for some sunny days to come.
 

LeoniD

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Film proved to be all right, although lately I have encountered severe fogging on some rolls recently shot..
The main issue with this film is still the fogging of the first couple of frames, due to very very bad plastic cassette design and (probably) loading the film with not much care
Wrong on both. The first couple of frames are fogged because of light piping. Same as on Aerocolor, for example. Cassette design is not any worse than regular metallic ones and loading is most likely performed on an automatic line
 

Minox

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Wrong on both. The first couple of frames are fogged because of light piping. Same as on Aerocolor, for example. Cassette design is not any worse than regular metallic ones and loading is most likely performed on an automatic line

I do understand your point of view. But this is my own experience, so I speak as I find. No serious light intrusion or anything like that should occur in a lightproof cassette. It never occurs with my own reloads, it never occurs with metal cassettes. I do not presume anything bad related to the products sold by Svema, just relaying my own experience, such as it is.

Regarding fogging, I do understand this can happen at times and I accept that, of course. However, it should not happen (and never did) to 4 consecutive films shot. And we are not talking here about some frames lost because of whatever: the entire 36 exp. film was affected, badly. That said, all other Svema films I tried so far performed well, the last 4 rolls in the bin they went.

Regarding the cassettes, I had a closer look and some of them do have issues. I say some, not all.
 

Alexander K

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I purchased some 40 rolls of 35mm from Svema, in 25/64/100/400 ASA. Paid by Paypal to an individual in Kiev, and I got the package really fast, in about 6 days. No import tax or anything else to be paid when package was released from the customs, which was kind of surprising (anything coming from outside the EU is taxed accordingly). All in all, the transaction and message exchange went ok, without nasty surprises.

Film proved to be all right, although lately I have encountered severe fogging on some rolls recently shot. I am yet to shoot the 25 and 64 versions, waiting for some sunny days to come.
Hi, mate! It is very interesting. Please tell me the contact details for SVETA, I wrote them a letter but did not receive a response.
 

LeoniD

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I do understand your point of view. But this is my own experience, so I speak as I find. No serious light intrusion or anything like that should occur in a lightproof cassette. It never occurs with my own reloads, it never occurs with metal cassettes. I do not presume anything bad related to the products sold by Svema, just relaying my own experience, such as it is.

Regarding fogging, I do understand this can happen at times and I accept that, of course. However, it should not happen (and never did) to 4 consecutive films shot. And we are not talking here about some frames lost because of whatever: the entire 36 exp. film was affected, badly. That said, all other Svema films I tried so far performed well, the last 4 rolls in the bin they went.

Regarding the cassettes, I had a closer look and some of them do have issues. I say some, not all.

Can you show the negatives? Aerial recon films are coated on, basically, optic fibre. If they are subjected to very bright light, it may sometimes fog the entire roll. Was the fog uniform, similar to aging fog?


Hi, mate! It is very interesting. Please tell me the contact details for SVETA, I wrote them a letter but did not receive a response.

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