Black and White Reversal Fail

[SMBooth]

Had my first go at B&W reversal using FomapanR, i was following the instructions of sort posted here but the results are not great. Can somebody confirm what i think is overexposure on the second exposure, or something else.
It looks like the highlights are flogged.
Thanks

 

[Europan]

You cannot overexpose the second time. Do second exposure to a frostet 60 W incandescent bulb at two feet from both sides.

Your bleaching is not complete. Agitate well for at least four minutes a 20° C. Agitate all baths.

 

[Ian Grant]

You cannot overexpose the second time. Do second exposure to a frostet 60 W incandescent bulb at two feet from both sides.

Your bleaching is not complete. Agitate well for at least four minutes a 20° C. Agitate all baths.

You can over expose at the re-exposure stage but it has to be by a very considerable amount and high light intensity so is unlikely in this case. It's more likely to be poor bleaching and perhaps washing afterwards.

Ian

 

[SMBooth]

OK thanks. I extend the bleaching time. Visually what should I expect to see when the film is bleached, just a creamy/white base?

 

[Ian Grant]

A creamy off-white positive image, the developed and bleached image should have cleared as the silver from the first development has been removed from the film emulsion.

Ian

 

[SMBooth]

just reading on Photograhy formulary reversal notes that you shoudnt use stainless steel reels, do you know why?
Thanks for your help.

 

[Ian Grant]

The reversal bleaches are strong oxidising agents and can attack and slowly dissolve some grades of stainless steel.

Ian

 

[SMBooth]

Success, third time lucky. Fomapan R seem to need a lot (12 min) of bleaching. Know i understand better the process I'll revert to FP4 as I really want to use a 120 film.
Thanks again, will post result when dry.

 

[chrisaisenbrey]

OK thanks. I extend the bleaching time. Visually what should I expect to see when the film is bleached, just a creamy/white base?

In case you are using permanganate bleach. It has a very short life time. I mix the permanganate and the sulfuric acid after the film is in the stop and transfer the film immediately into the bleach.

 

[SMBooth]

No Chris, using Pot Dich and Sulfuric Acid, but doing what you suggest anyway.

 

[flavio81]

I know this is slightly off topic, but, is there some alternative to Potassium dichromate or permanganate?
I can easily get ferric chloride (for etching printed circuit boards). Will it be useful as a bleach?

Or in any case, where could i get Potassium dichromate in my city? Who else uses this compound? From the wikipedia page it says that it is used for mixing cement...

 

[SMBooth]

Sorry cannot help you with the chemistry side of things or where to get it in Peru

 

[Roger Cole]

You mentioned Photographer's Formulary. Are you scratch mixing everything or using a kit or kits?

 

[Ian Grant]

I know this is slightly off topic, but, is there some alternative to Potassium dichromate or permanganate?
I can easily get ferric chloride (for etching printed circuit boards). Will it be useful as a bleach?

Or in any case, where could i get Potassium dichromate in my city? Who else uses this compound? From the wikipedia page it says that it is used for mixing cement...

You can use a persulphate bleach, you'd need to find a formula.

Ian

 

[Xmas]

You can use a persulphate bleach, you'd need to find a formula.

Ian

my supplier won't sell the chromate

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Raw-Chemicals/products/461/

maybe I could get it via my company, ...

 

[Europan]

The reversal bleaches are strong oxidising agents and can attack and slowly dissolve some grades of stainless steel.

To be exact, stainless steel withstands bleach baths rather well. The attack goes to where the metal is soldered or even welded. The heat exsolves the components of the alloy: iron, chromium, nickel.

Plastic reels are much better in this respect but they tend to collect unwanted residues in tiny pores and cracks. Fortunately, they’re not expensive.

 

[pdeeh]

my supplier won't sell the chromate

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Raw-Chemicals/products/461/

maybe I could get it via my company, ...

Go to Process Supplies, they sell it without qualm

Or try eBay or APCPure or Atom Scientific. You can buy it by the bucketload from the latter two with a phone call and a credit card, even as a private individual

 

[Xmas]

You can use a persulphate bleach, you'd need to find a formula.

Ian

my supplier won't sell the chromate

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Raw-Chemicals/products/461/

maybe I could get it via my company, ...

 

[SMBooth]

You mentioned Photographer's Formulary. Are you scratch mixing everything or using a kit or kits?

No making from scratch Roger. Was just reading from the PF PDF info sheet.
I had a bleaching problem.

But problem resolved

 

[Ian Grant]

To be exact, stainless steel withstands bleach baths rather well. The attack goes to where the metal is soldered or even welded. The heat exsolves the components of the alloy: iron, chromium, nickel.

Plastic reels are much better in this respect but they tend to collect unwanted residues in tiny pores and cracks. Fortunately, they’re not expensive.

Not according to Kodak who make specific warnings about reversal bleaches and stainless steel, they go as far as specifying what grade must be used.

Some tanks/reels may be OK others not so that's why warnings are made not to use SS tanks.

Ian

 

[Roger Cole]

No making from scratch Roger. Was just reading from the PF PDF info sheet.
I had a bleaching problem.

But problem resolved
View attachment 97274

So you used their kit, the one that says it's ideal for TMX? Works well with Foma R and FP4?

That's great to know. I'm kind of itching to do some B&W slides, maybe some B&W Infrared with my frozen stock of Efke IR820.

 

[SMBooth]

No Roger l used the instructions written here
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Specific for Fomapan R.

Next I try FP4 because I rather use 120 film which Fomapan R does not come in.

 

[Roger Cole]

Ah, ok, thanks. When you said "no making from scratch" I thought you meant you had bought everything together as a kit.

 

[phildil]

RE BW reversal. I've been doing this a while for 8mm movie film in a Lomo tank.

Just wanted to add re the bleach formula: Pot Dichromate is easily available online, in the UK at least. Try ebay. You need only a small amount: I mix 4g in a litre of the dilute acid and this lasts several runs (it goes green when it expires).

Important to note that this bleach formula is better than pot permanganate, which can actually soften the film emulsion if you leave the film in too long.

 

[Oxleyroad]

Shane if you want I can run you through all my good (and not so) learnings if you want. I'm free evenings mon-fri and most time through the weekend. PM me your number and I'll tee up a time. Needs to be after this coming weekend as out of town presently.